M110A2 conversion to M110

[Doug]

Looking for references / instructions for converting Italeri kit 291 (M110A2) to Viet Nam
era M110.

Thanks!

Doug

[RobG]

Post by Doug
Looking for references / instructions for converting Italeri kit 291 (M110A2) to Viet Nam
era M110.
Thanks!
Doug

I believe it is as simple as using the shorter barrel. Italeri did several versions of the M110, M110A1 and M110A2 that were barrel sprue swaps. They also did a German version that included different tracks and some German add ons, but was in a Revell box.

[Doug]

Thanks Rob,

The kit I have has only the one barrel - OA length is ~9.1 in., excluding the breech.
Would be easy enough to cut the existing barrel to the correct length and insert a section
of tube at the end as the original plastic tube wall thickness is likely too thin. Would
be more economical than purchasing another kit although may not be exactly correct.

Post by RobG

Post by Doug
Looking for references / instructions for converting Italeri kit 291 (M110A2) to Viet Nam
era M110.
Thanks!
Doug

I believe it is as simple as using the shorter barrel. Italeri did several versions of the M110, M110A1 and M110A2 that were barrel sprue swaps. They also did a German version that included different tracks and some German add ons, but was in a Revell box.

[RobG]

Post by Doug
Thanks Rob,
The kit I have has only the one barrel - OA length is ~9.1 in., excluding the breech.
Would be easy enough to cut the existing barrel to the correct length and insert a section
of tube at the end as the original plastic tube wall thickness is likely too thin. Would
be more economical than purchasing another kit although may not be exactly correct.

Post by RobG

Post by Doug
Looking for references / instructions for converting Italeri kit 291 (M110A2) to Viet Nam
era M110.
Thanks!
Doug

I believe it is as simple as using the shorter barrel. Italeri did several versions of the M110, M110A1 and M110A2 that were barrel sprue swaps. They also did a German version that included different tracks and some German add ons, but was in a Revell box.

Once upon a time, Verlinden did a resin conversion set #423 to make the old M107 or short barreled M110 into a modern M110A1 or M110A2. Any artilleryman using the Verlinden set said that it included the barrel for the M110. I know barrel depot did a turned metal tube, not sure if it is still available.

This site might help you in your project: http://www.modelersite.com/en/1696/italeri-m110--1-35-scale

Testors was the version I built. It included a photo of the built kit and was a straight M110, kit #795 and had a name on the tube BLOOD, SWEAT & TEARS in yellow stencil.

This thread states that what Italeri tries to sell as their M110A1 is in fact, the Testors M110 A-nothing.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47209/thread/1430057655/What+is+the+difference+between+the+M110+and+M110A1-

[Doug]

Thanks again Rob.

Found an article that noted the M107 was a 175 mm howitzer that used the same chassis as
the M110. Have been unsuccessful in finding any written detail on the contents of
Verlinden kit 423 - although the photo of the box top appears to show a short barrel is
included.

Found this in a kit review: "The M110 featured a stubby 25.3 caliber M2A2 8 inch howitzer,
with no muzzle brake, while the M110A1 had a longer 39.5 caliber M201 howitzer. The M110A2
added a double baffle muzzle brake to the M110A1 barrel (redesignated M201A1)", ref.
http://www.onthewaymodels.com/reviews/ARMO/WAlcott_ARMO_M110_72021_preview.htm

The caliber values being the same for all but the M110A2 as mentioned in the missing-lynx
thread you noted.

The photo of the Testor's M110 shows the end of the barrel just past the end of the body,
similar to although better than the photo of the Verlinden kit. Warren Kuntz offers the
OA barrel length of the M110 is 214.9 in. - or 6.14 in. in 1/35 scale. Not clear if that
is from the outer face of the breech to end of barrel or from another reference point.
Wish someone would have noted the OA length of the Testor's M110 barrel, as noted above -
that would make it easy.

Post by RobG

Post by Doug
Thanks Rob,
The kit I have has only the one barrel - OA length is ~9.1 in., excluding the breech.
Would be easy enough to cut the existing barrel to the correct length and insert a section
of tube at the end as the original plastic tube wall thickness is likely too thin. Would
be more economical than purchasing another kit although may not be exactly correct.

Post by RobG

Post by Doug
Looking for references / instructions for converting Italeri kit 291 (M110A2) to Viet Nam
era M110.
Thanks!
Doug

I believe it is as simple as using the shorter barrel. Italeri did several versions of the M110, M110A1 and M110A2 that were barrel sprue swaps. They also did a German version that included different tracks and some German add ons, but was in a Revell box.

Once upon a time, Verlinden did a resin conversion set #423 to make the old M107 or short barreled M110 into a modern M110A1 or M110A2. Any artilleryman using the Verlinden set said that it included the barrel for the M110. I know barrel depot did a turned metal tube, not sure if it is still available.
This site might help you in your project: http://www.modelersite.com/en/1696/italeri-m110--1-35-scale
Testors was the version I built. It included a photo of the built kit and was a straight M110, kit #795 and had a name on the tube BLOOD, SWEAT & TEARS in yellow stencil.
This thread states that what Italeri tries to sell as their M110A1 is in fact, the Testors M110 A-nothing.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47209/thread/1430057655/What+is+the+difference+between+the+M110+and+M110A1-

[RobG]

There are reports that M107 175mm self propelled gun wearing out their tubes in Vietnam and replacement 8" tubes being brought in by heavy helicopters basically turning them into M110 self propelled howitzers. The 107s went out of service before the M110 series.

The kits are all virtually identical except for the gun tube and the decals. What Italeri tries to pass off as the M110A1 is just an M110. The M110A1 had a longer tube but with a flared end of the tube. But much like the M107 to M110, the M110 easily became an M110A1 or M110A2 with a change of gun tube.

If you can guessimate the length of the M110 barrel, just getting a piece of brass or styrene rod the right size and you'd be in business. It is hard to find photos of the actual vehicle since a tube swap upgraded them.

[Doug]

Will cut the barrel and use styrene to fill the end of the barrel. Not having a lathe
will forgo trying to create the OD flare at the end of the tube.

While I prefer accuracy - try not to be too anal about details. Although this build will
be a gift to a good friend that crewed an M110 early in Nam - so he would most likely and
very quickly note any discrepancies.

Thanks again!

Post by RobG
There are reports that M107 175mm self propelled gun wearing out their tubes in Vietnam and replacement 8" tubes being brought in by heavy helicopters basically turning them into M110 self propelled howitzers. The 107s went out of service before the M110 series.
The kits are all virtually identical except for the gun tube and the decals. What Italeri tries to pass off as the M110A1 is just an M110. The M110A1 had a longer tube but with a flared end of the tube. But much like the M107 to M110, the M110 easily became an M110A1 or M110A2 with a change of gun tube.
If you can guessimate the length of the M110 barrel, just getting a piece of brass or styrene rod the right size and you'd be in business. It is hard to find photos of the actual vehicle since a tube swap upgraded them.

[RobG]

Post by Doug
Will cut the barrel and use styrene to fill the end of the barrel. Not having a lathe
will forgo trying to create the OD flare at the end of the tube.
While I prefer accuracy - try not to be too anal about details. Although this build will
be a gift to a good friend that crewed an M110 early in Nam - so he would most likely and
very quickly note any discrepancies.
Thanks again!

Are you sure he'd note discrepancies? I've served on several tanks throughout my career and I doubt I would be able to note anything other than if someone tried to pass off one version for another. And that's only going back the past 30 years, not 50 years.

[Doug]

My comment was based mostly on respect for my good friend and that he is very detail
oriented. However, as you note, identifying discrepancies of any kind other than those of
a gross overall nature may be unlikely. Will advise any comments he shares after
receiving the model - which is going to be a while.

Tank crew member - that is special! Not having the benefit of that experience or anything
similar - how loud is it in the turret when a round is fired? Is hearing protection
required?

Thank you again Rob - very much appreciate you sharing the benefit of your experiences.

Post by RobG

Post by Doug
Will cut the barrel and use styrene to fill the end of the barrel. Not having a lathe
will forgo trying to create the OD flare at the end of the tube.
While I prefer accuracy - try not to be too anal about details. Although this build will
be a gift to a good friend that crewed an M110 early in Nam - so he would most likely and
very quickly note any discrepancies.
Thanks again!

Are you sure he'd note discrepancies? I've served on several tanks throughout my career and I doubt I would be able to note anything other than if someone tried to pass off one version for another. And that's only going back the past 30 years, not 50 years.

[RobG]

Post by Doug
My comment was based mostly on respect for my good friend and that he is very detail
oriented. However, as you note, identifying discrepancies of any kind other than those of
a gross overall nature may be unlikely. Will advise any comments he shares after
receiving the model - which is going to be a while.
Tank crew member - that is special! Not having the benefit of that experience or anything
similar - how loud is it in the turret when a round is fired? Is hearing protection
required?
Thank you again Rob - very much appreciate you sharing the benefit of your experiences.

Post by Doug
Will cut the barrel and use styrene to fill the end of the barrel. Not having a lathe
will forgo trying to create the OD flare at the end of the tube.
While I prefer accuracy - try not to be too anal about details. Although this build will
be a gift to a good friend that crewed an M110 early in Nam - so he would most likely and
very quickly note any discrepancies.
Thanks again!

On a tank that I crewed, and there have been a fair number, I would notice something like the wrong style track (my old M48A5 used the early style and not the later style often seen). Whereas my M60A3TTS used the later style track, but had a mixture of both old and new style road wheels. The camouflage was repainted during my ownership and photos from one time won't match photos from a different date.

Now I crewed several Abrams tanks, some of which went through modifications while I was the tank commander as well, not to mention a trip to the desert that required my second pristine 3-color tank to get a crappy sand colored paint job. Subsequent Abrams tanks came delivered in factory fresh desert sand. I can tell most of the variations between the years it's been in service.

I only crewed one M1A2 and for just a brief period so unless someone tried to pass off a very late version as my early M1A2, I'd be hard pressed to point out inaccuracies that would truly be just variations.

As a young lieutenant, I was normally asked to build a model kit of a fellow lieutenant's particular tank. Believe me, using 1989 standards, and trying to replicate markings by hand, most were very happy to have a tank that was supposed to be their tank, but not even close by my standards of the late 90s, let alone today.

[RobG]

Post by Doug
Tank crew member - that is special! Not having the benefit of that experience or anything
similar - how loud is it in the turret when a round is fired? Is hearing protection
required?

Yes, tanks are very loud. We wore combat vehicle crewman helmets (CVC) which have a fiberglass shell and a headset that allow radio and intercom communication. Itchy and uncomfortable and tighter than wearing a football helmet. When firing, additional ear plugs should be worn but weren't because you need to be able to hear other crewmen and the radio. Yes, I am a little hard of hearing.

The 120mm cannon of the Abrams is very loud, much more so than the 105 of the M48A5 or M60A3, but those are still loud as well. If you don't have some hearing protection on, either the CVC helmet or ear plugs, your ears will be ringing after the first shot. Even the machine guns are loud enough to require hearing protection. Additionally, the turbine whine of the Abrams is enough to cause hearing loss. It's an occupational hazard generations of tankers have suffered through.

[Doug]

Thanks Rob - appreciate you sharing your experiences.

Did you see the movie 'Fury'? If so - how accurate were the tank operations and
interactions portrayed? Understand those interactions took place decades ago with older
technology - whereas current tactics would be significantly different.

Was surprised to read after seeing the movie the battle between the Tiger and Sherman used
the last operational Tiger I tank - and was not animated. That is true dedication to
detail!

Post by RobG

Post by Doug
Tank crew member - that is special! Not having the benefit of that experience or anything
similar - how loud is it in the turret when a round is fired? Is hearing protection
required?

Yes, tanks are very loud. We wore combat vehicle crewman helmets (CVC) which have a fiberglass shell and a headset that allow radio and intercom communication. Itchy and uncomfortable and tighter than wearing a football helmet. When firing, additional ear plugs should be worn but weren't because you need to be able to hear other crewmen and the radio. Yes, I am a little hard of hearing.
The 120mm cannon of the Abrams is very loud, much more so than the 105 of the M48A5 or M60A3, but those are still loud as well. If you don't have some hearing protection on, either the CVC helmet or ear plugs, your ears will be ringing after the first shot. Even the machine guns are loud enough to require hearing protection. Additionally, the turbine whine of the Abrams is enough to cause hearing loss. It's an occupational hazard generations of tankers have suffered through.

[RobG]

Post by Doug
Thanks Rob - appreciate you sharing your experiences.
Did you see the movie 'Fury'? If so - how accurate were the tank operations and
interactions portrayed? Understand those interactions took place decades ago with older
technology - whereas current tactics would be significantly different.
Was surprised to read after seeing the movie the battle between the Tiger and Sherman used
the last operational Tiger I tank - and was not animated. That is true dedication to
detail!

My brother in law asked the same thing about crew interaction. On a tank, there is still rank as in any unit. The senior person is the tank commander, usually an officer, sergeant first class or staff sergeant. The gunner is normally a sergeant, the driver a specialist and the loader a private of some type. Rank is rank and there are crew commands and responses drilled into armor crewmen that become as automatic as breathing. Grabbing a clerk to stick in the bow gunner spot is odd, but it would be the least critical position. All he needs to do is shoot a machine gun and mess with the radios.

Of course, their tank battles are much closer than modern day gun fights. Our "battle sight" is set at 1200m with many engagements beginning at 3000m (roughly 2 miles).

I also thought the guy freezing instead of firing the gun at the dismounted troops was odd. Especially with tanks, shooting at fleeting dismounted shapes should come naturally. I also thought the execution of the German POW was odd.

[Frank Tauss]

Post by Doug

Post by Doug
Thanks Rob - appreciate you sharing your experiences.
Did you see the movie 'Fury'? If so - how accurate were the tank
operati

ons and

Post by Doug
interactions portrayed? Understand those interactions took place
decades

ago with older

Post by Doug
technology - whereas current tactics would be significantly different.
Was surprised to read after seeing the movie the battle between the
Tiger

and Sherman used

Post by Doug
the last operational Tiger I tank - and was not animated. That is true
d

edication to

Post by Doug
detail!

My brother in law asked the same thing about crew interaction. On a
tank, there is still rank as in any unit. The senior person is the tank
commander, usually an officer, sergeant first class or staff sergeant.
The gunner is normally a sergeant, the driver a specialist and the
loader a private of some type. Rank is rank and there are crew commands
and responses drilled into armor crewmen that become as automatic as
breathing. Grabbing a clerk to stick in the bow gunner spot is odd, but
it would be the least critical position. All he needs to do is shoot a
machine gun and mess with the radios.
Of course, their tank battles are much closer than modern day gun
fights. Our "battle sight" is set at 1200m with many engagements
beginning at 3000m (roughly 2 miles).
I also thought the guy freezing instead of firing the gun at the
dismounted troops was odd. Especially with tanks, shooting at fleeting
dismounted shapes should come naturally. I also thought the execution of
the German POW was odd.

I have read from more than one source that Waffen SS were treated
differently than Wehrmact soldiers. Read a few stories about how few Waffen
SS became prisoners and why. Shooting the Waffen SS was disturbing but not
unexpected.

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by Doug
Looking for references / instructions for converting Italeri kit 291 (M110A2) to Viet Nam
era M110.
Thanks!
Doug

Wow! People still post here? I wanted to check an ancient post of mine from twenty years ago to find an acquaintance.
In answer to your question, yes, you can cut the barrel and insert a tube. That's exactly what I did on mine. (and added rifling)It flares a little at the end, so having a lathe certainly won't hurt. I even posted photos to Armorama. In real life there's a lot more to do. Each section of the rear of the barrel are different lengths depending upon the model. I just measured them extensively and a resin company MAY be doing them soon.

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by Doug
Looking for references / instructions for converting Italeri kit 291 (M110A2) to Viet Nam
era M110.
Thanks!
Doug

I should have read the replies. 71 inches for barrel length. I'm fortunate to have access to the original M110.

[RobG]

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Doug
Looking for references / instructions for converting Italeri kit 291 (M110A2) to Viet Nam
era M110.
Thanks!
Doug

I should have read the replies. 71 inches for barrel length. I'm fortunate to have access to the original M110.

Yeah, we were having this discussion 8 months ago. One of the few real modeling related threads in quite some time. Even Cookie stopped posting his armor reviews of preview kits.

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by RobG

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Doug
Looking for references / instructions for converting Italeri kit 291 (M110A2) to Viet Nam
era M110.
Thanks!
Doug

I should have read the replies. 71 inches for barrel length. I'm fortunate to have access to the original M110.

Yeah, we were having this discussion 8 months ago. One of the few real modeling related threads in quite some time. Even Cookie stopped posting his armor reviews of preview kits.

Thank God. Fairly worthless. As proof I point to his Academy M551 review, in which he gave it great marks. Then after Pawel ripped it, he did a complete reversal on the Gulf War release.

[RobG]

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by RobG

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Doug
Looking for references / instructions for converting Italeri kit 291 (M110A2) to Viet Nam
era M110.
Thanks!
Doug

I should have read the replies. 71 inches for barrel length. I'm fortunate to have access to the original M110.

Yeah, we were having this discussion 8 months ago. One of the few real modeling related threads in quite some time. Even Cookie stopped posting his armor reviews of preview kits.

Thank God. Fairly worthless. As proof I point to his Academy M551 review, in which he gave it great marks. Then after Pawel ripped it, he did a complete reversal on the Gulf War release.

The were good for the newsprint and USENET days, but today, a picture is worth a thousand words. Anyone with a smartphone and facebook account can upload a review with pictures.

[Gunslinger]

Post by Doug
Looking for references / instructions for converting Italeri kit 291 (M110A2) to Viet Nam
era M110.
Thanks!
Doug

To really do it justice there's a lot more involved, especially with the middle portion between the barrel and the breech. A quick look at photos will show what I mean. You could just cut off the barrel, but you'll still need to put a slight flare on it. Good news it's been rereleased. There's one in a hobby shop not fart from me.