Discussion:
Actors who served in the military
(too old to reply)
Bill Zuk
2005-10-02 04:38:15 UTC
Permalink
This is a tangential question derived from an earlier topic string. Who have
been actors who have served in the armed forces? I will start off:

Don Adams
John Agar
Eddie Albert
James Arness
Ed Asner
Gene Autry
Martin Balsam
Alan Bates
Harry Belafonte
Humphrey Bogart
Richard Boone
Ernest Borgnine
Neville Brand
Charles Bronson
Mel Brooks
Richard Burton (my mother-in-law dated him while he was training in Canada)
Michael Caine
Art Carney
Jeff Chandller
Sean Connery
Jackie Coogan
Tony Curtis
Ossie Davis
James Doohan
Kirk Douglas
Charles Durning
Clint Eastwood
Maurice Evans
Douglas Fairbanks Jr.
Mike Farrell
Henry Fonda
Glenn Ford
Morgan Freeman
Clark Gable
Frank Gorshin
Sir Alec Guinness
Gene Hackman
Larry Hagman
Alan Hale
Sterling Hayden
Jack Hawkins
David Hedison
Charlton Heston
Benny Hill
William Holden
Anthony Hopkins
Rock Hudson
Tab Hunter
Rick Jason
Bob "Captain Kangaroo" Keeshan
Harvey Keitel
Brian Keith
George Kennedy
Werner Klemperer
Don Knotts
Burt Lancaster
Jack Lemmon
Dean Paul Martin
Strother Martin
Lee Marvin
Patrick MacNee
Ed McMahon
Steve McQueen
Burgess Meredith
Gary Merrill
Robert Montgomery
Audie Murphy (actually the other way around)
Paul Newman
David Niven
Caroll O¹Connor
Jack Palance
Bert Parks
Donald Pleasance
Tyrone Power
Elvis Presley
Anthony Quayle
Aldo Ray
Ronald Reagan
Carl Reiner
Don Rickles
Jason Robards Jr.
Mickey Rooney
John Russell
Robert Ryan
Arnold Schwarzenegger
George C. Scott
Rod Serling
Robert Stack
Rod Stieger
Jimmy Stewart
Jon Voight
Eli Wallich
Jack Warden
James Whitmore
--
Bill ­ in my other life, a meek and mild librarian ­ Zuk
Don Harstad
2005-10-02 05:40:17 UTC
Permalink
Sir Peter Ustinov (he was David Niven's batman in WWII)

Don H.
Post by Bill Zuk
This is a tangential question derived from an earlier topic string. Who have
Don Adams
John Agar
Eddie Albert
James Arness
Ed Asner
Gene Autry
Martin Balsam
Alan Bates
Harry Belafonte
Humphrey Bogart
Richard Boone
Ernest Borgnine
Neville Brand
Charles Bronson
Mel Brooks
Richard Burton (my mother-in-law dated him while he was training in Canada)
Michael Caine
Art Carney
Jeff Chandller
Sean Connery
Jackie Coogan
Tony Curtis
Ossie Davis
James Doohan
Kirk Douglas
Charles Durning
Clint Eastwood
Maurice Evans
Douglas Fairbanks Jr.
Mike Farrell
Henry Fonda
Glenn Ford
Morgan Freeman
Clark Gable
Frank Gorshin
Sir Alec Guinness
Gene Hackman
Larry Hagman
Alan Hale
Sterling Hayden
Jack Hawkins
David Hedison
Charlton Heston
Benny Hill
William Holden
Anthony Hopkins
Rock Hudson
Tab Hunter
Rick Jason
Bob "Captain Kangaroo" Keeshan
Harvey Keitel
Brian Keith
George Kennedy
Werner Klemperer
Don Knotts
Burt Lancaster
Jack Lemmon
Dean Paul Martin
Strother Martin
Lee Marvin
Patrick MacNee
Ed McMahon
Steve McQueen
Burgess Meredith
Gary Merrill
Robert Montgomery
Audie Murphy (actually the other way around)
Paul Newman
David Niven
Caroll O¹Connor
Jack Palance
Bert Parks
Donald Pleasance
Tyrone Power
Elvis Presley
Anthony Quayle
Aldo Ray
Ronald Reagan
Carl Reiner
Don Rickles
Jason Robards Jr.
Mickey Rooney
John Russell
Robert Ryan
Arnold Schwarzenegger
George C. Scott
Rod Serling
Robert Stack
Rod Stieger
Jimmy Stewart
Jon Voight
Eli Wallich
Jack Warden
James Whitmore
--
Bill ­ in my other life, a meek and mild librarian ­ Zuk
Enzo Matrix
2005-10-02 09:59:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Harstad
Sir Peter Ustinov (he was David Niven's batman in WWII)
All of The Goons.

Spike Milligan served in the Royal Artillery in North Africa and Italy. He
wrote about his experiences in his memoirs, which had titles such as "Adolf
Hitler: My Part in His Downfall", "Rommel? Gunner Who?" and "Mussolini: His
Part in My Downfall"...

Harry Secombe also served in North Africa, where he met Milligan.

Peter Sellers was an enlisted airman in the RAF.

Michael Bentine was an intelligence officer in the RAF. He took part in the
liberation of Belsen concentration camp.
--
Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.
mindesign
2005-10-02 05:59:24 UTC
Permalink
http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/military/actors_in_wwii.html
Post by Bill Zuk
This is a tangential question derived from an earlier topic string. Who have
Don Adams
John Agar
Eddie Albert
James Arness
Ed Asner
Gene Autry
Martin Balsam
Alan Bates
Harry Belafonte
Humphrey Bogart
Richard Boone
Ernest Borgnine
Neville Brand
Charles Bronson
Mel Brooks
Richard Burton (my mother-in-law dated him while he was training in Canada)
Michael Caine
Art Carney
Jeff Chandller
Sean Connery
Jackie Coogan
Tony Curtis
Ossie Davis
James Doohan
Kirk Douglas
Charles Durning
Clint Eastwood
Maurice Evans
Douglas Fairbanks Jr.
Mike Farrell
Henry Fonda
Glenn Ford
Morgan Freeman
Clark Gable
Frank Gorshin
Sir Alec Guinness
Gene Hackman
Larry Hagman
Alan Hale
Sterling Hayden
Jack Hawkins
David Hedison
Charlton Heston
Benny Hill
William Holden
Anthony Hopkins
Rock Hudson
Tab Hunter
Rick Jason
Bob "Captain Kangaroo" Keeshan
Harvey Keitel
Brian Keith
George Kennedy
Werner Klemperer
Don Knotts
Burt Lancaster
Jack Lemmon
Dean Paul Martin
Strother Martin
Lee Marvin
Patrick MacNee
Ed McMahon
Steve McQueen
Burgess Meredith
Gary Merrill
Robert Montgomery
Audie Murphy (actually the other way around)
Paul Newman
David Niven
Caroll O¹Connor
Jack Palance
Bert Parks
Donald Pleasance
Tyrone Power
Elvis Presley
Anthony Quayle
Aldo Ray
Ronald Reagan
Carl Reiner
Don Rickles
Jason Robards Jr.
Mickey Rooney
John Russell
Robert Ryan
Arnold Schwarzenegger
George C. Scott
Rod Serling
Robert Stack
Rod Stieger
Jimmy Stewart
Jon Voight
Eli Wallich
Jack Warden
James Whitmore
--
Bill ­ in my other life, a meek and mild librarian ­ Zuk
G***@aol.com
2005-10-02 07:07:17 UTC
Permalink
My favorite was Richard Todd (Dam Busters, The Longest Day). In "The
Longest Day", he played the leader of the glider troops that captured
the Orne River bridge. In real life, he was one of the paratroopers
dropped onto that same position later in the day to reinforce that
group.

There is another actor who played the captain of the Prince of Wales in
"Sink the Bismark". In real life, he was actually serving on the Prince
of Wales during the Bismark hunt and was severly injured when the
bridge was hit.
Les Pickstock
2005-10-02 09:04:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by G***@aol.com
My favorite was Richard Todd (Dam Busters, The Longest Day). In "The
Longest Day", he played the leader of the glider troops that captured
the Orne River bridge. In real life, he was one of the paratroopers
dropped onto that same position later in the day to reinforce that
group.
There is another actor who played the captain of the Prince of Wales in
"Sink the Bismark". In real life, he was actually serving on the Prince
of Wales during the Bismark hunt and was severly injured when the
bridge was hit.
Sir Michael Horden ( best remembered perhaps for narrating Paddington Bear
on British TV)
Denholm Elliott
John Gregson (Angels 1-5, Sea of Sand)
Sam Kydd (very familiar "bit part" actor. If you don't know his name you'd
certainly know his face. IMDB gives him 203 movie credits I suspect there
are more. Uncountable TV appearences. After spending some of the War as a
POW his first movie role in 1946 was as "POW in top bunk" in "The Captive
Heart")
And probably the most prolific British War movie star
Sir John Mills
tomcervo
2005-10-02 16:03:28 UTC
Permalink
"My favorite was Richard Todd (Dam Busters, The Longest Day). In "The
Longest Day", he played the leader of the glider troops that captured
the Orne River bridge. In real life, he was one of the paratroopers
dropped onto that same position later in the day to reinforce that
group."

At one point he gives himself an order.


"There is another actor who played the captain of the Prince of Wales
in
"Sink the Bismark". In real life, he was actually serving on the Prince

of Wales during the Bismark hunt and was severly injured when the
bridge was hit."

Esmond Knight, blinded--he regained some sight afterwards.
Richard Brooks
2005-10-02 08:31:33 UTC
Permalink
Ronald Howard, son of Scarlet Pimpernel Leslie.
David Farrar

What about military support such as inventors ?
<http://www.inventions.org/culture/female/lamar.html>

Richard.
Val Kraut
2005-10-02 09:11:07 UTC
Permalink
Ed Kemmer - fighter pilot shot down over Germany spent a year as a POW and
was in on major escape. Played Buzz Corey on Space Patrol, lead roles in
serveral budget sci-fi/horror moveies, and ended up on the soaps.
Post by Bill Zuk
This is a tangential question derived from an earlier topic string. Who have
Don Adams
John Agar
Eddie Albert
James Arness
Ed Asner
Gene Autry
Martin Balsam
Alan Bates
Harry Belafonte
Humphrey Bogart
Richard Boone
Ernest Borgnine
Neville Brand
Charles Bronson
Mel Brooks
Richard Burton (my mother-in-law dated him while he was training in Canada)
Michael Caine
Art Carney
Jeff Chandller
Sean Connery
Jackie Coogan
Tony Curtis
Ossie Davis
James Doohan
Kirk Douglas
Charles Durning
Clint Eastwood
Maurice Evans
Douglas Fairbanks Jr.
Mike Farrell
Henry Fonda
Glenn Ford
Morgan Freeman
Clark Gable
Frank Gorshin
Sir Alec Guinness
Gene Hackman
Larry Hagman
Alan Hale
Sterling Hayden
Jack Hawkins
David Hedison
Charlton Heston
Benny Hill
William Holden
Anthony Hopkins
Rock Hudson
Tab Hunter
Rick Jason
Bob "Captain Kangaroo" Keeshan
Harvey Keitel
Brian Keith
George Kennedy
Werner Klemperer
Don Knotts
Burt Lancaster
Jack Lemmon
Dean Paul Martin
Strother Martin
Lee Marvin
Patrick MacNee
Ed McMahon
Steve McQueen
Burgess Meredith
Gary Merrill
Robert Montgomery
Audie Murphy (actually the other way around)
Paul Newman
David Niven
Caroll O¹Connor
Jack Palance
Bert Parks
Donald Pleasance
Tyrone Power
Elvis Presley
Anthony Quayle
Aldo Ray
Ronald Reagan
Carl Reiner
Don Rickles
Jason Robards Jr.
Mickey Rooney
John Russell
Robert Ryan
Arnold Schwarzenegger
George C. Scott
Rod Serling
Robert Stack
Rod Stieger
Jimmy Stewart
Jon Voight
Eli Wallich
Jack Warden
James Whitmore
--
Bill ­ in my other life, a meek and mild librarian ­ Zuk
Julian 'Penny for the guy' Hales
2005-10-02 10:35:30 UTC
Permalink
MC Hammer.
Shaggy.
Post by Bill Zuk
This is a tangential question derived from an earlier topic string. Who have
Don Adams
John Agar
Eddie Albert
James Arness
Ed Asner
Gene Autry
Martin Balsam
Alan Bates
Harry Belafonte
Humphrey Bogart
Richard Boone
Ernest Borgnine
Neville Brand
Charles Bronson
Mel Brooks
Richard Burton (my mother-in-law dated him while he was training in Canada)
Michael Caine
Art Carney
Jeff Chandller
Sean Connery
Jackie Coogan
Tony Curtis
Ossie Davis
James Doohan
Kirk Douglas
Charles Durning
Clint Eastwood
Maurice Evans
Douglas Fairbanks Jr.
Mike Farrell
Henry Fonda
Glenn Ford
Morgan Freeman
Clark Gable
Frank Gorshin
Sir Alec Guinness
Gene Hackman
Larry Hagman
Alan Hale
Sterling Hayden
Jack Hawkins
David Hedison
Charlton Heston
Benny Hill
William Holden
Anthony Hopkins
Rock Hudson
Tab Hunter
Rick Jason
Bob "Captain Kangaroo" Keeshan
Harvey Keitel
Brian Keith
George Kennedy
Werner Klemperer
Don Knotts
Burt Lancaster
Jack Lemmon
Dean Paul Martin
Strother Martin
Lee Marvin
Patrick MacNee
Ed McMahon
Steve McQueen
Burgess Meredith
Gary Merrill
Robert Montgomery
Audie Murphy (actually the other way around)
Paul Newman
David Niven
Caroll O¹Connor
Jack Palance
Bert Parks
Donald Pleasance
Tyrone Power
Elvis Presley
Anthony Quayle
Aldo Ray
Ronald Reagan
Carl Reiner
Don Rickles
Jason Robards Jr.
Mickey Rooney
John Russell
Robert Ryan
Arnold Schwarzenegger
George C. Scott
Rod Serling
Robert Stack
Rod Stieger
Jimmy Stewart
Jon Voight
Eli Wallich
Jack Warden
James Whitmore
--
Bill ­ in my other life, a meek and mild librarian ­ Zuk
WmB
2005-10-02 14:24:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Zuk
This is a tangential question derived from an earlier topic string. Who have
Don Adams
John Agar
Eddie Albert
James Arness
Ed Asner
Gene Autry
Martin Balsam
Alan Bates
Harry Belafonte
Humphrey Bogart
Richard Boone
Ernest Borgnine
Neville Brand
Charles Bronson
Mel Brooks
Richard Burton (my mother-in-law dated him while he was training in Canada)
Michael Caine
Art Carney
Jeff Chandller
Sean Connery
Jackie Coogan
Tony Curtis
Ossie Davis
James Doohan
Kirk Douglas
Charles Durning
Clint Eastwood
Maurice Evans
Douglas Fairbanks Jr.
Mike Farrell
Henry Fonda
Glenn Ford
Morgan Freeman
Clark Gable
Frank Gorshin
Sir Alec Guinness
Gene Hackman
Larry Hagman
Alan Hale
Sterling Hayden
Jack Hawkins
David Hedison
Charlton Heston
Benny Hill
William Holden
Anthony Hopkins
Rock Hudson
Tab Hunter
Rick Jason
Bob "Captain Kangaroo" Keeshan
Harvey Keitel
Brian Keith
George Kennedy
Werner Klemperer
Don Knotts
Burt Lancaster
Jack Lemmon
Dean Paul Martin
Strother Martin
Lee Marvin
Patrick MacNee
Ed McMahon
Steve McQueen
Burgess Meredith
Gary Merrill
Robert Montgomery
Audie Murphy (actually the other way around)
Paul Newman
David Niven
Caroll O¹Connor
Jack Palance
Bert Parks
Donald Pleasance
Tyrone Power
Elvis Presley
Anthony Quayle
Aldo Ray
Ronald Reagan
Carl Reiner
Don Rickles
Jason Robards Jr.
Mickey Rooney
John Russell
Robert Ryan
Arnold Schwarzenegger
George C. Scott
Rod Serling
Robert Stack
Rod Stieger
Jimmy Stewart
Jon Voight
Eli Wallich
Jack Warden
James Whitmore
--
Bill ­ in my other life, a meek and mild librarian ­ Zuk
Toshiro Mifune
James Garner
Alain Delon


WmB
Enzo Matrix
2005-10-02 14:34:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by WmB
Toshiro Mifune
Gert Fröbe (Auric Goldfinger in "Goldfinger" and Baron Bomburst in "Chitty
Chitty Bang Bang") was a member of the Nazi Party in the Second World War.
After the war he was revealed to have been active in hiding Jews from the
Gestapo and in aiding their escape. Apparently on its release "Goldfinger"
was initially banned in Israel owing to Frobe's connections with the Nazi
Party. However the ban was lifted when a number of Israeli citizens came
forward to explain his part in their survival.
--
Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.
tomcervo
2005-10-02 16:06:02 UTC
Permalink
Favorite irony:

Two of the most memorable cowards in film were played by Eddie Albert
(Attack) and Wayne Morris (Paths of Glory)--both of whom had
distinguished themselves under fire in the Navy in WW2.
m***@netscape.com
2005-10-02 19:30:05 UTC
Permalink
While searching Clark Gable's miiltary history I came accross one of
the most surprising personalities to see combat.

Dr. Ruth Westheimer (sp?) was a successful sniper with the Israeli
army. Don't know the tme frame, but I'll keep searching.

BTW, in case anyone missed the post, Clark Gable flew five combat
missions during his tour of duty in the UK in WWII.

Tom
Bill Zuk
2005-10-02 19:55:01 UTC
Permalink
I hadn't included all the actors who had "fought" in the war. Audrey Hepburn
acted as courier for World War II resistance fighters in Holland while
Robert Clary (of "Hogan's Heros" fame) was arrested as a Jewish Parisian
teenager and held in German concentration camps.
--
Bill ­ in my other life, a meek and mild librarian ­ Zuk
William H. Shuey
2005-10-03 00:48:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Zuk
I hadn't included all the actors who had "fought" in the war. Audrey Hepburn
acted as courier for World War II resistance fighters in Holland while
Robert Clary (of "Hogan's Heros" fame) was arrested as a Jewish Parisian
teenager and held in German concentration camps.
--
And If I remember correctly, David Niven, who was in the Highland Light
Infantry mentioned running into Jean Pierre Aumont in Normandy with a
French Special Operations unit.

Bill Shuey
m***@netscape.com
2005-10-03 22:06:38 UTC
Permalink
Time frame for Dr.Ruth was 1946-50 or thereabouts.

She was not a "successful" sniper as I had first heard. She was trained
as a sniper and was very proficient. She was seriously wounded in a
bombng of her barracks and didn't see combat after that.

Guess 'll have to get her book.

Strictly for the military informaton, of course. :-)

Tom
Kurt Laughlin
2005-10-02 20:01:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@netscape.com
While searching Clark Gable's miiltary history I came accross one of
the most surprising personalities to see combat.
Dr. Ruth Westheimer (sp?) was a successful sniper with the Israeli
army. Don't know the tme frame, but I'll keep searching.
Pre-1956 IIRC, perhaps 1946-1948.

KL
c***@worldnet.att.net
2005-10-02 22:25:04 UTC
Permalink
Dennis Franz(Hill Street-NYPD Blue) served in Viet Nam.
v***@gmail.com
2005-10-04 02:11:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Zuk
This is a tangential question derived from an earlier topic string. Who have
Don Adams
John Agar
Eddie Albert
James Arness
Ed Asner
Gene Autry
Martin Balsam
Alan Bates
Harry Belafonte
Humphrey Bogart
Richard Boone
Ernest Borgnine
Neville Brand
Charles Bronson
Mel Brooks
Richard Burton (my mother-in-law dated him while he was training in Canada)
Michael Caine
Art Carney
Jeff Chandller
Sean Connery
Jackie Coogan
Tony Curtis
Ossie Davis
James Doohan
Kirk Douglas
Charles Durning
Clint Eastwood
Maurice Evans
Douglas Fairbanks Jr.
Mike Farrell
Henry Fonda
Glenn Ford
Morgan Freeman
Clark Gable
Frank Gorshin
Sir Alec Guinness
Gene Hackman
Larry Hagman
Alan Hale
Sterling Hayden
Jack Hawkins
David Hedison
Charlton Heston
Benny Hill
William Holden
Anthony Hopkins
Rock Hudson
Tab Hunter
Rick Jason
Bob "Captain Kangaroo" Keeshan
Harvey Keitel
Brian Keith
George Kennedy
Werner Klemperer
Don Knotts
Burt Lancaster
Jack Lemmon
Dean Paul Martin
Strother Martin
Lee Marvin
Patrick MacNee
Ed McMahon
Steve McQueen
Burgess Meredith
Gary Merrill
Robert Montgomery
Audie Murphy (actually the other way around)
Paul Newman
David Niven
Caroll O¹Connor
Jack Palance
Bert Parks
Donald Pleasance
Tyrone Power
Elvis Presley
Anthony Quayle
Aldo Ray
Ronald Reagan
Carl Reiner
Don Rickles
Jason Robards Jr.
Mickey Rooney
John Russell
Robert Ryan
Arnold Schwarzenegger
George C. Scott
Rod Serling
Robert Stack
Rod Stieger
Jimmy Stewart
Jon Voight
Eli Wallich
Jack Warden
James Whitmore
--
Bill ­ in my other life, a meek and mild librarian ­ Zuk
Christopher Lee was in the RAF during WWII, and was especially involved
in Intelligence...

Vandevere
Greg Heilers
2005-10-04 04:18:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Bill Zuk
--
Bill ­ in my other life, a meek and mild librarian ­ Zuk
Christopher Lee was in the RAF during WWII, and was especially involved
in Intelligence...
Vandevere
VERY "involved" in Intelligence. There is an amusing anecdote in the
extended DVD of "Lord Of The Rings: The Return of the King". Director
Peter jackson tells; that when they were filming "Saruman's" death scene,
he gave instructions to Lee, on what kind of sound to make, as
"Wormtongue" (Brad Douriff) stabs him. Lee had to correct Jackson:

"Peter - I am sorry, but that is *not* the sound a man makes, when
he is being stabbed to death."

:o)
--
Greg Heilers
Registered Linux user #328317 - SlackWare 10.1 (2.6.10)
.....


Donuts. Is there anything they can't do?

-- Homer Simpson
Marge vs. the Monorail
r***@rcn.com
2005-10-04 04:29:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Heilers
"Peter - I am sorry, but that is *not* the sound a man makes, when
he is being stabbed to death."
I can imagine that particular "creepy Christopher's" tone of voice too......
steve
2005-10-04 17:05:59 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 04:38:15 GMT, Bill Zuk <***@shaw.ca> wrote:
Kurt Jurgens who played the U-boat commander in The Enemy Below served
in the German Military during WWII and spent time as a prisoner of
war.
Steve
Post by Bill Zuk
This is a tangential question derived from an earlier topic string. Who have
Don Adams
John Agar
Eddie Albert
James Arness
Ed Asner
Gene Autry
Martin Balsam
Alan Bates
Harry Belafonte
Humphrey Bogart
Richard Boone
Ernest Borgnine
Neville Brand
Charles Bronson
Mel Brooks
Richard Burton (my mother-in-law dated him while he was training in Canada)
Michael Caine
Art Carney
Jeff Chandller
Sean Connery
Jackie Coogan
Tony Curtis
Ossie Davis
James Doohan
Kirk Douglas
Charles Durning
Clint Eastwood
Maurice Evans
Douglas Fairbanks Jr.
Mike Farrell
Henry Fonda
Glenn Ford
Morgan Freeman
Clark Gable
Frank Gorshin
Sir Alec Guinness
Gene Hackman
Larry Hagman
Alan Hale
Sterling Hayden
Jack Hawkins
David Hedison
Charlton Heston
Benny Hill
William Holden
Anthony Hopkins
Rock Hudson
Tab Hunter
Rick Jason
Bob "Captain Kangaroo" Keeshan
Harvey Keitel
Brian Keith
George Kennedy
Werner Klemperer
Don Knotts
Burt Lancaster
Jack Lemmon
Dean Paul Martin
Strother Martin
Lee Marvin
Patrick MacNee
Ed McMahon
Steve McQueen
Burgess Meredith
Gary Merrill
Robert Montgomery
Audie Murphy (actually the other way around)
Paul Newman
David Niven
Caroll O¹Connor
Jack Palance
Bert Parks
Donald Pleasance
Tyrone Power
Elvis Presley
Anthony Quayle
Aldo Ray
Ronald Reagan
Carl Reiner
Don Rickles
Jason Robards Jr.
Mickey Rooney
John Russell
Robert Ryan
Arnold Schwarzenegger
George C. Scott
Rod Serling
Robert Stack
Rod Stieger
Jimmy Stewart
Jon Voight
Eli Wallich
Jack Warden
James Whitmore
tomcervo
2005-10-04 18:34:16 UTC
Permalink
Kurt Jurgens who played the U-boat commander in The Enemy Below served
in the German Military during WWII and spent time as a prisoner of
war.

A little of both, actually. He was dodging the draft in Vienna at the
end of the war
steve
2005-10-04 17:09:22 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 04:38:15 GMT, Bill Zuk <***@shaw.ca> wrote:
The LAte James Doohan of Star Trek fame lost a finger during D-day
while serving with the Canadian Armed Forces.
STeve
Post by Bill Zuk
This is a tangential question derived from an earlier topic string. Who have
Don Adams
John Agar
Eddie Albert
James Arness
Ed Asner
Gene Autry
Martin Balsam
Alan Bates
Harry Belafonte
Humphrey Bogart
Richard Boone
Ernest Borgnine
Neville Brand
Charles Bronson
Mel Brooks
Richard Burton (my mother-in-law dated him while he was training in Canada)
Michael Caine
Art Carney
Jeff Chandller
Sean Connery
Jackie Coogan
Tony Curtis
Ossie Davis
James Doohan
Kirk Douglas
Charles Durning
Clint Eastwood
Maurice Evans
Douglas Fairbanks Jr.
Mike Farrell
Henry Fonda
Glenn Ford
Morgan Freeman
Clark Gable
Frank Gorshin
Sir Alec Guinness
Gene Hackman
Larry Hagman
Alan Hale
Sterling Hayden
Jack Hawkins
David Hedison
Charlton Heston
Benny Hill
William Holden
Anthony Hopkins
Rock Hudson
Tab Hunter
Rick Jason
Bob "Captain Kangaroo" Keeshan
Harvey Keitel
Brian Keith
George Kennedy
Werner Klemperer
Don Knotts
Burt Lancaster
Jack Lemmon
Dean Paul Martin
Strother Martin
Lee Marvin
Patrick MacNee
Ed McMahon
Steve McQueen
Burgess Meredith
Gary Merrill
Robert Montgomery
Audie Murphy (actually the other way around)
Paul Newman
David Niven
Caroll O¹Connor
Jack Palance
Bert Parks
Donald Pleasance
Tyrone Power
Elvis Presley
Anthony Quayle
Aldo Ray
Ronald Reagan
Carl Reiner
Don Rickles
Jason Robards Jr.
Mickey Rooney
John Russell
Robert Ryan
Arnold Schwarzenegger
George C. Scott
Rod Serling
Robert Stack
Rod Stieger
Jimmy Stewart
Jon Voight
Eli Wallich
Jack Warden
James Whitmore
Mad-Modeller
2005-10-05 02:57:32 UTC
Permalink
According to the obit in tonight's paper Nipsey Russell was a captain
during WWII. Good actor, too, IMHO.

Bill Banaszak, MFE
Gordon McLaughlin
2005-10-05 17:06:09 UTC
Permalink
On the general subject of actors in military service, I was intrigued to
read, a few years ago, that Jimmie Stewart was the senior officer who
carried out the enquiry into the repeated American bombing of Switzerland
during World War Two. To judge from what I've read of him, he seems to have
been content to avoid publicity and get on with his military service without
capitalising on it in his later career.

Am I correct in thinking that John Wayne never did any form of military
service or is this a misapprehension on my part?

Gordon McLaughlin
Post by Mad-Modeller
According to the obit in tonight's paper Nipsey Russell was a captain
during WWII. Good actor, too, IMHO.
Bill Banaszak, MFE
Jim
2005-10-06 03:05:53 UTC
Permalink
Yes, you are correct about John Wayne. I vaguely remember hearing the
reasons, and think I think it was family related. Not sure though.
Post by Gordon McLaughlin
On the general subject of actors in military service, I was intrigued to
read, a few years ago, that Jimmie Stewart was the senior officer who
carried out the enquiry into the repeated American bombing of Switzerland
during World War Two. To judge from what I've read of him, he seems to have
been content to avoid publicity and get on with his military service without
capitalising on it in his later career.
Am I correct in thinking that John Wayne never did any form of military
service or is this a misapprehension on my part?
Gordon McLaughlin
Post by Mad-Modeller
According to the obit in tonight's paper Nipsey Russell was a captain
during WWII. Good actor, too, IMHO.
Bill Banaszak, MFE
William H. Shuey
2005-10-06 03:46:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gordon McLaughlin
Am I correct in thinking that John Wayne never did any form of military
service or is this a misapprehension on my part?
FWIW I have heard three different takes on this, depending on whether
the source was a fan or a detractor.
1. Rejected because he was married and had children
2. He had an old football injury and couldn't pass a physical
3. He wanted to volunteer but they wouldn't give him a commission.

Take your pick!

Bill Shuey
c***@worldnet.att.net
2005-10-06 04:17:02 UTC
Permalink
I realize it is streching it to call him an actor, but Ed Mcmahon was a
Marine Corps pilot. Also regarding the Tonight Show, I recall seeing
Tony Randall talk about being a courier when he was new 2d Lt.
Gordon McLaughlin
2005-10-06 20:11:07 UTC
Permalink
Thanks. As neither a fan nor a detractor, I was simply curious. The web
sites I looked at were no help.

Gordon McLaughlin
Post by William H. Shuey
Post by Gordon McLaughlin
Am I correct in thinking that John Wayne never did any form of military
service or is this a misapprehension on my part?
FWIW I have heard three different takes on this, depending on whether
the source was a fan or a detractor.
1. Rejected because he was married and had children
2. He had an old football injury and couldn't pass a physical
3. He wanted to volunteer but they wouldn't give him a commission.
Take your pick!
Bill Shuey
Stephen Tontoni
2005-10-05 04:00:49 UTC
Permalink
What's the name of the actor from Hogan's Heroes who played "Lebeau"?
He'd either spent time at a POW camp or concentration camp during WWII;
don't recall which. I'm sure that dozens of fingers are typing the
actor's name now, while dozens of others are opening up IMDB....

---- Tontoni
Stephen Tontoni
2005-10-05 04:02:59 UTC
Permalink
Ronald Reagan? Granted he was a captain in the army, but his tour of
duty was Hollywood and confined to that theater (pun entirely intended)
while he made movies (and training films) throughout the war.

--- Tontoni
Gray Ghost
2005-10-05 05:24:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Tontoni
Ronald Reagan? Granted he was a captain in the army, but his tour of
duty was Hollywood and confined to that theater (pun entirely intended)
while he made movies (and training films) throughout the war.
--- Tontoni
Well certainly better than a later President who dodged his military
obligation altogether and went to the capital of the main enemy at the same
time.

Sorta like if Ronnie went to Tokyo or Berlin to try and understand whey they
were so angry with us.
g***@gmail.com
2005-10-05 13:40:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gray Ghost
Post by Stephen Tontoni
Ronald Reagan? Granted he was a captain in the army, but his tour of
duty was Hollywood and confined to that theater (pun entirely intended)
while he made movies (and training films) throughout the war.
--- Tontoni
Well certainly better than a later President who dodged his military
obligation altogether and went to the capital of the main enemy at the same
time.
No, not really.

Both of them ducked a chance to get shot at. WWII was this nation's
obligation. Vietnam was somewhat less.

IIRC, we weren't in a declared war with "the main enemy" at the time,
so your analogy is kinda silly.

But hey, don't let these pesky details detract from your obvious
worship of the only perfect president.

E.P.
AM
2005-10-05 14:01:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
No, not really.
Both of them ducked a chance to get shot at. WWII was this nation's
obligation. Vietnam was somewhat less.
IIRC, we weren't in a declared war with "the main enemy" at the time,
so your analogy is kinda silly.
But hey, don't let these pesky details detract from your obvious
worship of the only perfect president.
E.P.
Well... he didnt have to go to Oxford to protest the war
either.... (and why was VN any less of an obligation ?)
And his track record in office was to marginalize the
military and worse, our intelligence services.
He also led a very trashy lifestyle while in office,
and was a general disgrace to the presidency.
(Donate enough $$$ and you too could have spent the
night in the WH)


But hey... dont let these pesky details get in the way
of your oblivious worship of someone who dosnt represent
American values.......
(and the liberals STILL havnt figured out why they lose
seats in all the recent elections, they just dont get it)



We should ALL be breathing a sigh of relief that Gore didnt
get the chance to nominate anyone to the Supreme Court !!!!

















AM
Bill Zuk
2005-10-05 14:54:37 UTC
Permalink
Hey last two- keep it on topic!
--
Bill ­ in my other life, a meek and mild librarian ­ Zuk
g***@gmail.com
2005-10-05 15:02:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Zuk
Hey last two- keep it on topic!
Is there any modelling content at all?

How do you keep an off-topic topic on-topic?

[scratches head]

E.P.
Bill Zuk
2005-10-05 20:05:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Bill Zuk
Hey last two- keep it on topic!
Is there any modelling content at all?
How do you keep an off-topic topic on-topic?
[scratches head]
E.P.
I can see a modeling connection- depicting an aircraft, vehicle or other
that was associated with a celebrity (actor). I can imagine a Jimmy Stewart
B-24, Clark Gable in a B-17 waist-gunner's position and son on.


My comment was obliquely directed to those who inject political content in
what was otherwise, a history lesson-exercise.
--
Bill ­ in my other life, a meek and mild librarian ­ Zuk
g***@gmail.com
2005-10-05 15:00:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by AM
Post by g***@gmail.com
No, not really.
Both of them ducked a chance to get shot at. WWII was this nation's
obligation. Vietnam was somewhat less.
IIRC, we weren't in a declared war with "the main enemy" at the time,
so your analogy is kinda silly.
But hey, don't let these pesky details detract from your obvious
worship of the only perfect president.
E.P.
Well... he didnt have to go to Oxford to protest the war
either.... (and why was VN any less of an obligation ?)
Because the fate of the world wasn't hanging on it.
Post by AM
And his track record in office was to marginalize the
military and worse, our intelligence services.
That's good spin.
Post by AM
He also led a very trashy lifestyle while in office,
and was a general disgrace to the presidency.
No worse than many of his predecessors, of both parties.
Post by AM
(Donate enough $$$ and you too could have spent the
night in the WH)
You say that like he was the only POTUS to do that.
Post by AM
But hey... dont let these pesky details get in the way
of your oblivious worship of someone who dosnt represent
American values.......
LOL. I didn't vote for him, so I guess you'll have to build a
different strawman.
Post by AM
(and the liberals STILL havnt figured out why they lose
seats in all the recent elections, they just dont get it)
No, they don't. We conservatives aren't all that far behind.
Post by AM
We should ALL be breathing a sigh of relief that Gore didnt
get the chance to nominate anyone to the Supreme Court !!!!
Really? It seems like GOP-nominated justices have done most of the
stuff that the GOP is against.

And do you really think Gore could have pushed a real liberal through
the GOP-controlled Senate?

Take off your elephant-colored glasses for a moment and look at
reality. Reagan was no saint, and Clinton was no devil. GWB is no
more a conservative savior than he is a conservative.

They're all politicians, and therefore scumbags of the first order.
Lower than trial lawyers and used-car salesmen. The fact that their
policies may coincide or be opposed to your preferences doesn't make
them any more or less heroic.

They all stand at the taxpayer trough and slop their pals. Then they
turn around and tell you how great it is after they're done raping your
wallet. People who actually *believe* their BS are none too bright.
They *all* lie, cheat and steal to get what they want, and every one of
them comes out swinging on a golden parachute, if they've greased the
skids enough with your money and mine.

"But, but, but... He believes the same things I do!!" Sure he does.
Until it's convenient or profitable to believe something else. And,
because *you* don't want to believe he was such a scumbag to begin
with, you ignore the shifts of direction.

But then again, I've never believed that *any* politician has "core
values." In order to seek power, compromises must be made. And
principles don't win you high office. I realize there are very many
people who believe otherwise, and I accept that - just don't expect me
to respect that kind of naivete.

E.P.
Bill Zuk
2005-10-05 20:12:59 UTC
Permalink
Do not feed the troll
--
Bill ­ in my other life, a meek and mild librarian ­ Zuk
MJ Rudy
2005-10-05 22:13:48 UTC
Permalink
Honorable mention should also go to Hedy Lamarr, who invented a
guidance system for torpedoes:

http://www.inventions.org/culture/female/lamarr.html
--
M. J. Rudy
***@hotmail.com
NEW ADDRESS:
http://www.geocities.com/mjrudymodels/
Jim
2005-10-06 03:18:08 UTC
Permalink
Damn, wish this topic had come up a few months ago. Hedy Lamarr was the
answer to a bonus test question in my Telephony class.
Post by MJ Rudy
Honorable mention should also go to Hedy Lamarr, who invented a
http://www.inventions.org/culture/female/lamarr.html
--
M. J. Rudy
http://www.geocities.com/mjrudymodels/
Kos
2005-10-06 21:06:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Damn, wish this topic had come up a few months ago. Hedy Lamarr was the
answer to a bonus test question in my Telephony class.
"
Post by MJ Rudy
Honorable mention should also go to Hedy Lamarr, who invented a
That's "Hedley"...
Francis X. Kranick, Jr.
2005-10-06 23:17:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kos
Post by Jim
Damn, wish this topic had come up a few months ago. Hedy Lamarr was the
answer to a bonus test question in my Telephony class.
"
Post by MJ Rudy
Honorable mention should also go to Hedy Lamarr, who invented a
That's "Hedley"...
"Count da Money! Count da Money!..."

Hehehehe


Frank Kranick
Mad-Modeller
2005-10-07 03:00:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Francis X. Kranick, Jr.
Post by Kos
Post by Jim
Damn, wish this topic had come up a few months ago. Hedy Lamarr was the
answer to a bonus test question in my Telephony class.
"
Post by MJ Rudy
Honorable mention should also go to Hedy Lamarr, who invented a
That's "Hedley"...
"Count da Money! Count da Money!..."
Hehehehe
Frank Kranick
Suddenly I feel the need for some beans.....

Bill Banaszak, MFE
Gray Ghost
2005-10-07 02:19:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kos
Post by Jim
Damn, wish this topic had come up a few months ago. Hedy
Lamarr was the
Post by Kos
Post by Jim
answer to a bonus test question in my Telephony class. "
Post by MJ Rudy
Honorable mention should also go to Hedy Lamarr, who
invented a
Post by Kos
That's "Hedley"...
What are you worried about, you'll be able to sue her.
Les Pickstock
2005-10-07 11:44:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Damn, wish this topic had come up a few months ago. Hedy Lamarr was the
answer to a bonus test question in my Telephony class.
"
Post by MJ Rudy
Honorable mention should also go to Hedy Lamarr, who invented a
That's "Hedley"...

I thought she came up with a basic concept which was applied to
Torpedo Guidence. I also heard that her idea is still being applied to
phone technology today. What impressed me was that she gave the idea free
to the U.S. Government.

"Don't shoot him, You'll only make him mad!"
Richard Brooks
2005-10-06 21:16:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by MJ Rudy
Honorable mention should also go to Hedy Lamarr, who invented a
http://www.inventions.org/culture/female/lamarr.html
Thanks for reposting my original post MJ, it saved me having to do it
again! ;-)


Richard.
Mad-Modeller
2005-10-06 04:11:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Zuk
Do not feed the troll
--
Bill ­ in my other life, a meek and mild librarian ­ Zuk
Kinda like telling the kids to keep it down in the reading room, ain't
it?

Bill Banaszak, MFE
Stephen Tontoni
2005-10-06 01:13:21 UTC
Permalink
Oh you know, in the Ronald Reagan-military effort discussion,I don't
discredit his contribution, but having a camera shoot at you is far
different than guns or bombs. I think Reagan did much more for this
country than his 8 years in office!

But one who we haven't mentioned yet, since he wasn't in any movies (as
a star anyway) was Glenn Miller. Glenn Miller was a USAAC officer; I
think captain, but I may stand corrected if wrong. He was lost over the
English Channel in a Nordyn Norseman. That was a precious loss.

--- Tontoni
Gray Ghost
2005-10-06 01:30:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Gray Ghost
Post by Stephen Tontoni
Ronald Reagan? Granted he was a captain in the army, but his tour of
duty was Hollywood and confined to that theater (pun entirely
intended) while he made movies (and training films) throughout the
war.
--- Tontoni
Well certainly better than a later President who dodged his military
obligation altogether and went to the capital of the main enemy at the
same time.
No, not really.
Both of them ducked a chance to get shot at. WWII was this nation's
obligation. Vietnam was somewhat less.
IIRC, we weren't in a declared war with "the main enemy" at the time,
so your analogy is kinda silly.
But hey, don't let these pesky details detract from your obvious
worship of the only perfect president.
E.P.
Au contraire. Mr Reagan was as flawed as any man. And Mr Reagan did not
choose to avoid service. He enlisted. His assignment was based on his abilty
and his infirmity.

Mr C simply lied and left. Had he carried his load he could have been in
country in a safe position due to his contacts. He choose a different way.

And if you don't grasp that we were indeed at war with the main enemy for
forty odd years and that men were dieing in proxy fights and various
intelligence gathering operations than perhaps you aren't quite as studied as
you think.

But hey, don't let these pesky details detract from your obvious
worship of the only impeached president.
WmB
2005-10-06 17:30:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
But hey, don't let these pesky details detract from your obvious
worship of the only impeached president.
Andrew Johnson... impeached by the lower house of Congress and like Clinton
acquitted by the upper house. The margin in Johnson's case was one vote.

WmB
g***@gmail.com
2005-10-06 21:04:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gray Ghost
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Gray Ghost
Post by Stephen Tontoni
Ronald Reagan? Granted he was a captain in the army, but his tour of
duty was Hollywood and confined to that theater (pun entirely
intended) while he made movies (and training films) throughout the
war.
--- Tontoni
Well certainly better than a later President who dodged his military
obligation altogether and went to the capital of the main enemy at the
same time.
No, not really.
Both of them ducked a chance to get shot at. WWII was this nation's
obligation. Vietnam was somewhat less.
IIRC, we weren't in a declared war with "the main enemy" at the time,
so your analogy is kinda silly.
But hey, don't let these pesky details detract from your obvious
worship of the only perfect president.
E.P.
Au contraire. Mr Reagan was as flawed as any man. And Mr Reagan did not
choose to avoid service. He enlisted. His assignment was based on his abilty
and his infirmity.
Yes, I'm *sure* that political considerations were never part of the
equation. LOL.
Post by Gray Ghost
Mr C simply lied and left. Had he carried his load he could have been in
country in a safe position due to his contacts. He choose a different way.
And it made not one bit of difference. One pampered college boy more
or less didn't win or lose any wars.

Maybe he had "different priorities"?
Post by Gray Ghost
And if you don't grasp that we were indeed at war with the main enemy for
forty odd years
Declared when? Troops on the ground? No? OK, then - there was no
declared war. And since travel to that country was *legal*, your sour
grapes over the episode seem kind of petty.
Post by Gray Ghost
But hey, don't let these pesky details detract from your obvious
worship of the only impeached president.
You seemed to miss the pesky detail that I didn't vote for the guy.
And you're factually incorrect about the impeachment.

But hey, hang your hat on it - I'm sure it matters a hill of beans to
someone, somewhere.

E.P.
Gray Ghost
2005-10-07 02:18:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Gray Ghost
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Gray Ghost
Post by Stephen Tontoni
Ronald Reagan? Granted he was a captain in the army, but his tour
of duty was Hollywood and confined to that theater (pun entirely
intended) while he made movies (and training films) throughout
the war.
--- Tontoni
Well certainly better than a later President who dodged his
military obligation altogether and went to the capital of the main
enemy at the same time.
No, not really.
Both of them ducked a chance to get shot at. WWII was this nation's
obligation. Vietnam was somewhat less.
IIRC, we weren't in a declared war with "the main enemy" at the
time, so your analogy is kinda silly.
But hey, don't let these pesky details detract from your obvious
worship of the only perfect president.
E.P.
Au contraire. Mr Reagan was as flawed as any man. And Mr Reagan did
not choose to avoid service. He enlisted. His assignment was based on
his abilty and his infirmity.
Yes, I'm *sure* that political considerations were never part of the
equation. LOL.
Well, since he was a Democrat at the time...
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Gray Ghost
Mr C simply lied and left. Had he carried his load he could have been
in country in a safe position due to his contacts. He choose a
different way.
And it made not one bit of difference. One pampered college boy more
or less didn't win or lose any wars.
Oh so one is free to choose when and if they will serve. But Bush is excoritated even
though he did. Very logical.
Post by g***@gmail.com
Maybe he had "different priorities"?
And I'm sure the 50,000 dead US soldiers had different priorities, too. But they didn't
get to run away overseas to avoid thier obligation.
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Gray Ghost
And if you don't grasp that we were indeed at war with the main enemy
for forty odd years
Declared when? Troops on the ground? No? OK, then - there was no
declared war. And since travel to that country was *legal*, your sour
grapes over the episode seem kind of petty.
Another tard who missed the previous 50 years of history due to excessive bong exposure.
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Gray Ghost
But hey, don't let these pesky details detract from your obvious
worship of the only impeached president.
You seemed to miss the pesky detail that I didn't vote for the guy.
And you're factually incorrect about the impeachment.
Alright second president. I'm not sure that really makes it any better.
Post by g***@gmail.com
But hey, hang your hat on it - I'm sure it matters a hill of beans to
someone, somewhere.
It matters to those of us who give a damn about this country, it's people and it's
future.
Post by g***@gmail.com
E.P.
g***@gmail.com
2005-10-07 04:28:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gray Ghost
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Gray Ghost
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Gray Ghost
Post by Stephen Tontoni
Ronald Reagan? Granted he was a captain in the army, but his tour
of duty was Hollywood and confined to that theater (pun entirely
intended) while he made movies (and training films) throughout
the war.
--- Tontoni
Well certainly better than a later President who dodged his
military obligation altogether and went to the capital of the main
enemy at the same time.
No, not really.
Both of them ducked a chance to get shot at. WWII was this nation's
obligation. Vietnam was somewhat less.
IIRC, we weren't in a declared war with "the main enemy" at the
time, so your analogy is kinda silly.
But hey, don't let these pesky details detract from your obvious
worship of the only perfect president.
E.P.
Au contraire. Mr Reagan was as flawed as any man. And Mr Reagan did
not choose to avoid service. He enlisted. His assignment was based on
his abilty and his infirmity.
Yes, I'm *sure* that political considerations were never part of the
equation. LOL.
Well, since he was a Democrat at the time...
Exactly. Like I said before, neither set of politicians is worth
anything.
Post by Gray Ghost
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Gray Ghost
Mr C simply lied and left. Had he carried his load he could have been
in country in a safe position due to his contacts. He choose a
different way.
And it made not one bit of difference. One pampered college boy more
or less didn't win or lose any wars.
Oh so one is free to choose when and if they will serve. But Bush is
excoritated even though he did. Very logical.
Really? I don't recall saying one damn thing about Bush. Maybe you
better keep straight who the hell you're talking to, bub.
Post by Gray Ghost
Post by g***@gmail.com
Maybe he had "different priorities"?
And I'm sure the 50,000 dead US soldiers had different priorities, too. But they didn't
get to run away overseas to avoid thier obligation.
That was Dick Cheney's excuse for not serving. Thanks for helping to
make my point.
Post by Gray Ghost
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Gray Ghost
And if you don't grasp that we were indeed at war with the main enemy
for forty odd years
Declared when? Troops on the ground? No? OK, then - there was no
declared war. And since travel to that country was *legal*, your sour
grapes over the episode seem kind of petty.
Another tard who missed the previous 50 years of history due to excessive bong exposure.
You just tell me when war was declared, and you've got a point. Until
then, you're just spouting right-wing bullshit.

There was never a declared war, and what Clinton did was legal. Get
over it.
Post by Gray Ghost
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Gray Ghost
But hey, don't let these pesky details detract from your obvious
worship of the only impeached president.
You seemed to miss the pesky detail that I didn't vote for the guy.
And you're factually incorrect about the impeachment.
Alright second president. I'm not sure that really makes it any better.
You conveniently missed the part where I didn't vote for the idiot.
Nice.
Post by Gray Ghost
Post by g***@gmail.com
But hey, hang your hat on it - I'm sure it matters a hill of beans to
someone, somewhere.
It matters to those of us who give a damn about this country, it's people and it's
future.
Actually, it doesn't. The only folks the impeachment meant anything to
were the right-wingers with an axe to grind.

It won't make one damn difference, to anyone, ever. Tough luck for the
"tards" who think everything attached to the GOP is golden, and
anything attached to the Democrats is evil. Useful idiots, more or
less.

E.P.
William H. Shuey
2005-10-08 01:45:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Actually, it doesn't. The only folks the impeachment meant anything to
were the right-wingers with an axe to grind.
This one I have to agree with! It was obvious going in that they didn't
have the Senate votes to impeach and yet they persisted with their
political Banzai charge. It looked stupid, and arrogant.

Bill Shuey
registered Republican.
Mad-Modeller
2005-10-08 03:24:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by William H. Shuey
Post by g***@gmail.com
Actually, it doesn't. The only folks the impeachment meant anything to
were the right-wingers with an axe to grind.
This one I have to agree with! It was obvious going in that they didn't
have the Senate votes to impeach and yet they persisted with their
political Banzai charge. It looked stupid, and arrogant.
Bill Shuey
registered Republican.
And left me with a desire to see them all unemployed, kind of like the
swine in our state legislature who helped themselves to heaping amounts
of the public treasury at 2 AM in July. Oh where is Mr. Moultard at a
time like this?

Bill Banaszak, MFE
tomcervo
2005-10-09 13:13:15 UTC
Permalink
"> Maybe he had "different priorities"?
And I'm sure the 50,000 dead US soldiers had different priorities, too.
But they didn't
get to run away overseas to avoid thier obligation. "

Or get five deferments from the draft, like Dick Cheney, who was the
one to talk about his "different priorities".
Gray Ghost
2005-10-09 21:18:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomcervo
"> Maybe he had "different priorities"?
And I'm sure the 50,000 dead US soldiers had different priorities, too. But they didn't
get to run away overseas to avoid thier obligation. "
Or get five deferments from the draft, like Dick Cheney, who was the
one to talk about his "different priorities".
Deferments are legal. What Clinton did was not, whether he was prosecuted or
not.
Stephen Tontoni
2005-10-06 01:09:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gray Ghost
Post by Stephen Tontoni
Ronald Reagan? Granted he was a captain in the army, but his tour of
duty was Hollywood and confined to that theater (pun entirely intended)
while he made movies (and training films) throughout the war.
--- Tontoni
Well certainly better than a later President who dodged his military
obligation altogether and went to the capital of the main enemy at the same
time.
Sorta like if Ronnie went to Tokyo or Berlin to try and understand whey they
were so angry with us.
Dodging military obligation? Of course, you're referring to our current
fearless leader; I can't think of another one right now... but where did
Bush go? We only know bits and pieces of his Alabama ANG involvement. So
what are you saying that Bush did? Sorry, I'm not following you here...

--- Tontoni
Gray Ghost
2005-10-06 01:35:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Tontoni
Post by Gray Ghost
Post by Stephen Tontoni
Ronald Reagan? Granted he was a captain in the army, but his tour of
duty was Hollywood and confined to that theater (pun entirely
intended) while he made movies (and training films) throughout the
war.
--- Tontoni
Well certainly better than a later President who dodged his military
obligation altogether and went to the capital of the main enemy at the
same time.
Sorta like if Ronnie went to Tokyo or Berlin to try and understand
whey they were so angry with us.
Dodging military obligation? Of course, you're referring to our current
fearless leader; I can't think of another one right now... but where
did Bush go? We only know bits and pieces of his Alabama ANG
involvement. So what are you saying that Bush did? Sorry, I'm not
following you here...
--- Tontoni
Oh please save it for your fan letter to Dan Rather. The man flew F-102s.
What did you do?
Bill Zuk
2005-10-06 02:17:45 UTC
Permalink
There are trolls among us- do not feed them- they will just keep coming
back.
--
Bill ­ in my other life, a meek and mild librarian ­ Zuk
Stephen Tontoni
2005-10-06 04:20:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gray Ghost
Post by Stephen Tontoni
Post by Gray Ghost
Post by Stephen Tontoni
Ronald Reagan? Granted he was a captain in the army, but his tour of
duty was Hollywood and confined to that theater (pun entirely
intended) while he made movies (and training films) throughout the
war.
--- Tontoni
Well certainly better than a later President who dodged his military
obligation altogether and went to the capital of the main enemy at the
same time.
Sorta like if Ronnie went to Tokyo or Berlin to try and understand
whey they were so angry with us.
Dodging military obligation? Of course, you're referring to our current
fearless leader; I can't think of another one right now... but where
did Bush go? We only know bits and pieces of his Alabama ANG
involvement. So what are you saying that Bush did? Sorry, I'm not
following you here...
--- Tontoni
Oh please save it for your fan letter to Dan Rather. The man flew F-102s.
What did you do?
Hmm let me think; in 1971 I was a freshman in high school. Graduated in
1976. Regarding Bush's record, he did train to fly F-102's but when he
was assigned to the Alabama ANG, there's no record of his actually
reporting for duty. The only evidence that we was there at all was from
some dental work done.

That Rather used faulty sources and resigned in disgrace doesn't make
Bush's lack of war record any less true. This was talked about in my
pinko-commie-liberal circles well before Rather's exodus.

Anyway, back to the topic that's off-topic. What was the actor's name
who played Lebeau on Hogan's Heroes?

--- Tontoni
Gray Ghost
2005-10-06 04:50:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Tontoni
Hmm let me think; in 1971 I was a freshman in high school. Graduated in
1976. Regarding Bush's record, he did train to fly F-102's but when he
was assigned to the Alabama ANG, there's no record of his actually
reporting for duty. The only evidence that we was there at all was from
some dental work done.
Very nice. Simply IGNORE the fact that he flew for how many uyears out of
Texas. Get a hardon for the last few months of service.

Do you know how ridiculous and agenda driven you sound.

And I ain't Bush's biggest fan either. I haven't the time or the space but
there's plenty he does that I'm not fond of.

Though Thank God it's not Gore or Kerry up there!
tomcervo
2005-10-09 13:10:00 UTC
Permalink
"Though Thank God it's not Gore or Kerry up there! "

Yeah, you know what they say about those Viet Nam vets.
On the other hand, the national budget might look like something other
than that of a coed in her first year away at college.
Gray Ghost
2005-10-09 21:17:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomcervo
"Though Thank God it's not Gore or Kerry up there! "
Yeah, you know what they say about those Viet Nam vets.
On the other hand, the national budget might look like
something other
Post by tomcervo
than that of a coed in her first year away at college.
Vets? Gore had an armed escort the whole time he was in
country as a photo journalist. IHe wasn't in for the full
year that everyone else was and I doubt he ever heard a shot
fired. And ther's enough doubt about Kerry and his "Purple
Hearts. Yellow Feathers is more like it.
tomcervo
2005-10-10 01:23:23 UTC
Permalink
"Vets? Gore had an armed escort the whole time he was in
country as a photo journalist. IHe wasn't in for the full
year that everyone else was and I doubt he ever heard a shot
fired. And ther's enough doubt about Kerry and his "Purple
Hearts. Yellow Feathers is more like it. "

Of course they haven't YOUR war record, but they managed to get through
their service and Viet Nam. Bush couldn't even make it to a flight
physical.
Stephen Tontoni
2005-10-10 01:29:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomcervo
Post by tomcervo
"Though Thank God it's not Gore or Kerry up there! "
Yeah, you know what they say about those Viet Nam vets.
On the other hand, the national budget might look like
something other
Post by tomcervo
than that of a coed in her first year away at college.
Vets? Gore had an armed escort the whole time he was in
country as a photo journalist. IHe wasn't in for the full
year that everyone else was and I doubt he ever heard a shot
fired. And ther's enough doubt about Kerry and his "Purple
Hearts. Yellow Feathers is more like it.
I decided to allow that George W. Bush *may* have actually not been a
deserter as it was disclosed LONG BEFORE the Dan Rather story. I was
called on that here, and thought; okay, give W the benefit of the doubt.
Maybe he did serve with the Alabama ANG, although there are no documents
that support this.

So out of courtesy, I'd ask that you also discount the Swift Boat
allegations about Kerry's record. Kerry did, after all, go to Viet Nam,
and did serve there. At least we know he showed up and was not a
deserter, whatever his actions there were.

As a matter of quid pro quo, let's not cast stones at Kerry's record
until Bush's can be established with any sense of accuracy.

Gore also was THERE; Bush never went to Viet Nam at all.

So let's recap what we know, rather than what the propaganda pushes:

Bush: never went to Viet Nam, never saw live fire against an enemy
Gore: went to Viet Nam, saw live fire, shot back with a camera (etc)
Kerry: went to Viet Nam, saw live fire, shot back with deadly force.

Can anyone reasonably dispute these three statements of their records?

--- Tontoni
eyeball
2005-10-10 02:17:54 UTC
Permalink
Well I can mention that Kerry lost and ask that you get over it...
AM
2005-10-10 03:29:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by eyeball
Well I can mention that Kerry lost and ask that you get over it...
ROFLMAO !!





































AM
Stephen Tontoni
2005-10-10 03:52:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by eyeball
Well I can mention that Kerry lost and ask that you get over it...
That would be an ENTIRELY different off-topic topic, but thanks... lol

Actually it concerns me that the direction this country is pointed now
is very dangerous, and I'm afraid that the damage is done. It'll take
years and years for this country to recover from it. I'm afraid that I
can't "get over" that; I love my country too much to turn my back on it.

--- Tontoni
eyeball
2005-10-10 04:45:01 UTC
Permalink
are you sure you arent someone else who promised to leave RMS alone
after failing to save civilization from W?
WmB
2005-10-10 05:39:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Tontoni
Post by eyeball
Well I can mention that Kerry lost and ask that you get over it...
That would be an ENTIRELY different off-topic topic, but thanks... lol
Actually it concerns me that the direction this country is pointed now
is very dangerous, and I'm afraid that the damage is done. It'll take
years and years for this country to recover from it. I'm afraid that I
can't "get over" that; I love my country too much to turn my back on it.
--- Tontoni
Chill. This is pretty much what the liberals say before/during every
Republican presidency. I like to think of them as the Chicken Little
Prophecies. Reagan was going to nuke the planet the minute he took office,
Bush41 didn't believe in anything - other than Willie Horton and Bush43 - OH
MY! - fit him for devil horns somebody. He'll be the ruin of us all.

Now if you want to talk about self-inflicting damage upon a country - two
words for ya -

JIMMY CARTER.

Cheer up. Any country that can survive four years of that jackass can
survive anything. Luckily, Bush is a Rhodes Scholar compared to that dimwit.
And no, it doesn't matter how many years Carter spent in subs or whether he
was on one that passed close enough to Vietnam to give you a woody. ;-)

WmB
g***@gmail.com
2005-10-10 19:09:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by WmB
Now if you want to talk about self-inflicting damage upon a country - two
words for ya -
JIMMY CARTER.
Most historians agree that Jimmy Carter winning the election had much
to do with the disgust people felt toward anything having to do with
R.M. Nixon.

Like it or not, Nixon hurt the U.S. directly and indirectly, and one of
those indirect things was Carter.

A rutabega could have won against Carter in 1980, so RWR's win wasn't
that big of an accomplishment.

E.P.
Bill Zuk
2005-10-10 20:06:33 UTC
Permalink
To all the political operatives out there:

Take these arguments somewhere else; the original intent of this forum
discussion was to explore the issue of actors who did serve in the military.
The possibility of a modeling subject was the reason underlining this
discourse. Political discussions seem to bring out discord and strident
posturing that is not appropriate for this forum.
--
Bill ­ in my other life, a meek and mild librarian ­ Zuk
Doc Hopper
2005-10-11 00:33:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Zuk
Take these arguments somewhere else; the original intent of this forum
discussion was to explore the issue of actors who did serve in the military.
The possibility of a modeling subject was the reason underlining this
discourse. Political discussions seem to bring out discord and strident
posturing that is not appropriate for this forum.
--
Bill ­ in my other life, a meek and mild librarian ­ Zuk
I agree with Zuk. I was interested in this thread at the beginning because
it provided some good info on actors' contributions to their countries,
either in combat or in film. The thread seems to have degenerated into a
discussion of American politics and the relative merits of actual and
wannabee presidents.

Cheers,
Doc
g***@gmail.com
2005-10-11 01:02:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Zuk
Take these arguments somewhere else; the original intent of this forum
discussion was to explore the issue of actors who did serve in the military.
The possibility of a modeling subject was the reason underlining this
discourse. Political discussions seem to bring out discord and strident
posturing that is not appropriate for this forum.
Well, Bill - I understand your frustration, but in the end, *you*
control the content that comes to your monitor. Trying to get folks to
leave politics out of r.m.s. is like trying to move the beach one grain
of sand at a time.

It's just not possible.

I gave up long ago.

I suggest a couple of things:

Killfile the violators - all of them.

Kill the threads or subthreads that aren't fruitful.

Don't click on the posts in the subthreads where the violators are
posting.

The beauty of all these solutions is that you are in full control of
them all. Personally, I find the propaganda from both sides to be
tremendously amusing.

E.P.
Mad-Modeller
2005-10-11 04:15:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Bill Zuk
Take these arguments somewhere else; the original intent of this forum
discussion was to explore the issue of actors who did serve in the military.
The possibility of a modeling subject was the reason underlining this
discourse. Political discussions seem to bring out discord and strident
posturing that is not appropriate for this forum.
Well, Bill - I understand your frustration, but in the end, *you*
control the content that comes to your monitor. Trying to get folks to
leave politics out of r.m.s. is like trying to move the beach one grain
of sand at a time.
It's just not possible.
I gave up long ago.
Killfile the violators - all of them.
Kill the threads or subthreads that aren't fruitful.
Don't click on the posts in the subthreads where the violators are
posting.
The beauty of all these solutions is that you are in full control of
them all. Personally, I find the propaganda from both sides to be
tremendously amusing.
E.P.
'Maybe' we could talk them into changing the thread title so that those
of us who actually want to discuss the topic could see said discussion.
Eh, nothing like having a nice piece of art shat upon.

Bill Banaszak, MFE
eyeball
2005-10-11 04:27:33 UTC
Permalink
I thought what happened to these threads is that some people spend time
with their head up their ass,then want to show us the vacation photos!
Gray Ghost
2005-10-10 05:40:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Tontoni
Post by Gray Ghost
Post by tomcervo
"Though Thank God it's not Gore or Kerry up there! "
Yeah, you know what they say about those Viet Nam vets.
On the other hand, the national budget might look like something
other than that of a coed in her first year away at college.
Vets? Gore had an armed escort the whole time he was in
country as a photo journalist. IHe wasn't in for the full
year that everyone else was and I doubt he ever heard a shot
fired. And ther's enough doubt about Kerry and his "Purple
Hearts. Yellow Feathers is more like it.
I decided to allow that George W. Bush *may* have actually not been a
deserter as it was disclosed LONG BEFORE the Dan Rather story. I was
called on that here, and thought; okay, give W the benefit of the doubt.
Maybe he did serve with the Alabama ANG, although there are no documents
that support this.
So out of courtesy, I'd ask that you also discount the Swift Boat
allegations about Kerry's record. Kerry did, after all, go to Viet Nam,
and did serve there. At least we know he showed up and was not a
deserter, whatever his actions there were.
As a matter of quid pro quo, let's not cast stones at Kerry's record
until Bush's can be established with any sense of accuracy.
Gore also was THERE; Bush never went to Viet Nam at all.
Bush: never went to Viet Nam, never saw live fire against an enemy
Gore: went to Viet Nam, saw live fire, shot back with a camera (etc)
Kerry: went to Viet Nam, saw live fire, shot back with deadly force.
Can anyone reasonably dispute these three statements of their records?
--- Tontoni
I am still waiting for one of you Kerry apologists and agaenda driven,
intellectually dishonest characters to stop focusing just on Alabama (which
I'll get to in a later post) and acknowledge the simple fact that Bush
enlisted in the Air National Guard was trained and actually flew a high
performance, nuclear missile capable interceptor. Your insistence on
focusing on the allegedly missed service in Alabama whilst flatly ignoring
his service in Texas is ridiculous and insulting. I concede nothing. If
there was actual evidence then the Democratic flunkies would not have had to
stupidly forge documents in a way that was easily detected, suggesting his
detractors knew so little of the military (and are so divorced from reality)
as to think that such "evidence" would have any credibility.

Had there been a shred of actual evidence false evidence would not have to
be manufactured.

And the Swift Vets are extremely credible. They each tell very similar
stories of a fairly incompetent, cowardly glory hound. And Kerry's refusal
to release his records frankly allows one to assume the worst, if they would
exonerate him, why not release them.

So indeed let's recap.

Gore went to Vietnam and was guarded by another soldier who might have been
more valuable elsewhere because he was such a valuable human being, the
fortunate son of a Senator (who I believe voted against the Civli Rights
Act).

Clinton flat lied to the draft board, did not sign up for ROTC as he
promised, then went overseas, didn't smoke pot, didn't complete his term at
Oxford and traveled to the Soviet Union via Sweden and stayed in a very nice
hotel usually reserved for special guests of Soviet Union, all whilst a poor
as a churchmouse student.

Kerry spent a good deal less than his year, claimed Purple Hearts for wounds
that other men said they would have been embarassed to put in for. When he
got home early he lent his "credibility" as a combat officer to a bunch of
anti American scumbags, lied about what was happening claiming to have
witnessed atrocities that noone else has ever verified (having shot a man in
the back himself). He went to Paris while still an officer in the US Navy
and participated in talks with North Vietnam in direct contravention of his
responsibilties as a serving officer. His picture hangs in some communist
hall of heros in South Vietnam as having helped the North in it's cause in
murdering and subjugating a people.

Meanwhile:

Jan. 19, 1968: Bush completes Air Force officer qualifications test in New
Haven, Conn., while attending Yale University.

May 27, 1968: Walter B. Staudt, commander of the Texas National Guard,
interviews Bush and recommends he be accepted for pilot training. Bush's
application for enlistment in the Guard is approved.

June 1968: Bush receives bachelor of arts degree from Yale.

July 12, 1968: A three-member Federal Recognition Examining Board reports
Bush is qualified for promotion to 2nd Lieutenant in the 111th Fighter
Interceptor Squadron.

July 14, 1968: Bush attends basic military training in San Antonio.

Aug. 25, 1968: Completes basic military training.

Nov. 26, 1968 — Dec. 2, 1969: Attends undergraduate pilot training with the
3559th Student Squadron, Moody Air Force Base, Ga. He is trained to fly
standard Air Force aircraft, including the T-31, T-37, and T-39.

Dec. 29, 1969 — Jan. 20, 1970: Trainee, 111th Squadron, Ellington Air Force
Base, near Houston.

Jan. 11, 1970: Assigned flying duty as a pilot of F-102 fighter
interceptors, 111th Squadron at Ellington.

Aug. 24, 1970: Three-member board recommends 2nd Lt. Bush for promotion to
first lieutenant. Bush later receives the promotion.

1971: Participates in drills and alerts at Ellington. Begins work for
Houston-based agricultural company.


I concede nothing buddy. Bring on whatever you got. The truth WILL prevail.
Stephen Tontoni
2005-10-10 09:45:24 UTC
Permalink
I've been poking around articles on the internet regarding Bush's
services, and the water is murky to say the least. It seems to me that
writers are putting spin onto what ever facts that they can grasp,
depending on their ideology. Here are a few URL's, supporting both sides
of the controversy, that I pulled up. It's as reliable as we know the
internet is... in other words, read between the lines:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/030411.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_military_service_controversy#
Drill_attendance_in_1972_and_1973

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames?bid=3&pid=1264

http://www.nationalreview.com/flashback/york200408261025.asp

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/02/13/elec04.prez.bush.texas.records/

http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-banal11.html

http://www.southerner.net/blog/awolbush.html

The only matter that is in question regarding Bush's service was the
year that is allegedly missing from his service in the Alabama ANG. I
have no questions about his service with Texas ANG.

Again, my point was that Kerry went to Viet Nam and saw active service.
Bush did not. Gore went to Viet Nam and saw active service, albeit with
a camera. Bush did not. Even had Bush completed his requirements with
the ANG (and he probably did) he has not been in nor has he seen a
fire-fight except on TV.

Regarding Kerry deserving the medals or not, that's highly subjective.
In addition to the 3 purple hearts, though, he was awarded a number of
other medals. (here they are:
Loading Image...) So Kerry's
service in Viet Nam isn't just about whether swiftboat vets thought that
the 3 purple hearts were warranted or not.

And honestly, at this point, I don't even recall what the initial
discussion was about, which frequently happens when talking to
conservatives! (that's a joke, by the way... sort of)

--- Tontoni

(and one further PS... I didn't care for Kerry as presidential material.
He's an intellectual windbag. Kerry's entire platform was "I'm not
George Bush".. and that was nearly enough for him to win the election. I
don't know anyone personally who was REALLY a Kerry supporter. Anyway,
that Kerry came as close as he did to winning shows just how ready this
country was to get rid of Bush.)
Gray Ghost
2005-10-10 18:45:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Tontoni
I've been poking around articles on the internet regarding Bush's
services, and the water is murky to say the least. It seems to me that
writers are putting spin onto what ever facts that they can grasp,
depending on their ideology. Here are a few URL's, supporting both sides
of the controversy, that I pulled up. It's as reliable as we know the
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/030411.html
First lsentence: Since you've already covered the Bush family's relationship
to the Nazis... Need I say more.
Post by Stephen Tontoni
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_military_service_controversy#
Drill_attendance_in_1972_and_1973
Well at least this acknowledges 336 flight hours, which is more than I've
read any leftwing dolt acknowledge.
Post by Stephen Tontoni
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames?bid=3&pid=1264
That's an unbiased source.
Post by Stephen Tontoni
http://www.nationalreview.com/flashback/york200408261025.asp
This one is good, Turnipseed is really the best source since he was the boss
of the outfit. But as it says he was widely misquoted (read that as
journalist LIED about what he said to make it fit thier agenda)

So why is this part always left out of the left wing diatrubes?

******
Bush joined in May 1968. He went through six weeks of basic training — a
full-time job — at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Tex. Then he
underwent 53 weeks of flight training — again, full time — at Moody Air
Force Base in Valdosta, Ga. Then he underwent 21 weeks of fighter
interceptor training — full time — at Ellington Air Force Base in Houston.
Counting other, shorter, postings in between, by the end of his training
period Bush had served two years on active duty.

Certified to fly the F-102 fighter plane, Bush then began a period of
frequent — usually weekly — flying. The F-102 was designed to shoot down
other fighter planes, and the missions Bush flew were training flights,
mostly over the Gulf of Mexico and often at night, in which pilots took
turns being the predator and the prey."If you're going to practice how to
shoot down another airplane, then you have to have another airplane up there
to work on," recalls retired Col. William Campenni, who flew with Bush in
1970 and 1971. "He'd be the target for the first half of the mission, and
then we'd switch."

During that period Bush's superiors gave him consistently high ratings as a
pilot. "Lt. Bush is an exceptional fighter interceptor pilot and officer,"
wrote one in a 1972 evaluation. Another evaluation, in 1971, called Bush "an
exceptionally fine young officer and pilot" who "continually flies intercept
missions with the unit to increase his proficiency even further." And a
third rating, in 1970, said Bush "clearly stands out as a top notch fighter
interceptor pilot" and was also "a natural leader whom his contemporaries
look to for leadership."

All that flying involved quite a bit of work. "Being a pilot is more than
just a monthly appearance," says Bob Harmon, a former Guard pilot who was a
member of Bush's group in 1971 and 1972. "You cannot maintain your currency
by doing just one drill a month. He was flying once or twice a week during
that time, from May of 1971 until May of 1972." While the work was certainly
not as dangerous as fighting in the jungles of Vietnam, it wasn't exactly
safe, either. Harmon remembers a half-dozen Texas Air National Guard fliers
who died in accidents over the years, in cluding one during the time Bush
was flying. "This was not an endeavor without risk," Harmon notes.
******

Then they take the following and turnit inside out until in means the exact
opposite.

******
What seems most likely is that Bush was indeed at Dannelly, but there was
not very much for a non-flying pilot to do. Flying fighter jets involves
constant practice and training; Bush had to know when he left Texas that he
would no longer be able to engage in either one very often, which meant that
he would essentially leave flying, at least for some substantial period of
time. In addition, the 187th could not accommodate another pilot, at least
regularly. "He was not going to fly," says Turnipseed. "We didn't have
enough airplanes or sorties to handle our own pilots, so we wouldn't have
done it for some guy passing through."

On the other hand, showing up for drills was still meeting one's
responsibility to the Guard. And, as 1973 went along, the evidence suggests
that Bush stepped up his work to make up for the time he had missed earlier.
In April of that year, he received credit for two days; in May, he received
credit for 14 days; in June, five days; and in July, 19 days. That was the
last service Bush performed in the Guard. Later that year, he asked for and
received permission to leave the Guard early so he could attend Harvard
Business School. He was given an honorable discharge after serving five
years, four months, and five days of his original six-year commitment.

The records indicate that, despite his move to Alabama, Bush met his
obligation to the Guard in the 1972-73 year. At that time, Guardsmen were
awarded points based on the days they reported for duty each year. They were
given 15 points just for being in the Guard, and were then required to
accumulate a total of 50 points to satisfy the annual requirement. In his
first four years of service, Bush piled up lots of points; he earned 253
points in his first year, 340 in his second, 137 in his third, and 112 in
his fourth. For the year from May 1972 to May 1973, records show Bush earned
56 points, a much smaller total, but more than the minimum requirement (his
service was measured on a May-to-May basis because he first joined the Guard
in that month in 1968).

Bush then racked up another 56 points in June and July of 1973, which met
the minimum requirement for the 1973-74 year, which was Bush's last year of
service. Together, the record "clearly shows that First Lieutenant George W.
Bush has satisfactory years for both '72-'73 and '73-'74, which proves that
he completed his military obligation in a satisfactory manner," says retired
Lt. Col. Albert Lloyd, a Guard personnel officer who reviewed the records at
the request of the White House.

All in all, the documents show that Bush served intensively for four years
and then let up in his fifth and sixth years, although he still did enough
to meet Guard requirements. The records also suggest that Bush's superiors
were not only happy with his performance from 1968 to 1972, but also happy
with his decision to go to Alabama. Indeed, Bush's evaluating officer wrote
in May 1972 that "Lt. Bush is very active in civic affairs in the community
and manifests a deep interest in the operation of our government. He has
recently accepted the position as campaign manager for a candidate for
United States Senate. He is a good representative of the military and Air
National Guard in the business world."

Beyond their apparent hope that Bush would be a good ambassador for the
Guard, Bush's superiors might have been happy with his decision to go into
politics for another reason: They simply had more people than they needed.
"In 1972, there was an enormous glut of pilots," says Campenni. "The Vietnam
War was winding down, and the Air Force was putting pilots in desk jobs. In
'72 or '73, if you were a pilot, active or Guard, and you had an obligation
and wanted to get out, no problem. In fact, you were helping them solve
their problem."
******

In fact it really would appear that there is solid evidence that these are
the facts. The leftist liemongers seem bent on applying Goebels "biggest
lie, repeated often enough becomes truth" gambit. The constant drumbeat and
assaults and accusations makes it appear as if there is something there. But
be honest enough to admit that in the end

IF THERE WAS EVIDENCE THAN EVIDENCE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN MANUFACTURED.

I can understand if you think conservatives in general are liars, franky I
think the same of liberals, mostly regarding policy. But to deliberately lie
and attack a man, to dishonor him is abhorrent. There is no excuse for it.
And it makes me very suspicious of a cult that feels that personal
destruction is legitimate. And it tends to make me think that none of what
thet say can be trusted, even if some of it potentially could.

Remember Bush's dad and the horrible attempt to denigrate his service, to
dishonor him. The left is to stupid to understand that a man who was
incompetent or a coward would not have lasted very long, no enlisted man
would fly with him in his plane, no pilot would want him on his wing. If you
think that politics played any role in that crucible it says more about your
worldview, than the events at the time.
Post by Stephen Tontoni
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/02/13/elec04.prez.bush.texas.records/
http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-banal11.html
http://www.southerner.net/blog/awolbush.html
The only matter that is in question regarding Bush's service was the
year that is allegedly missing from his service in the Alabama ANG. I
have no questions about his service with Texas ANG.
Again refusing to give credit for the previous years or acknowledge that
there is really no evidence to support the claim, just rumor and
supposition, not supported by his CO in Alabama.
Post by Stephen Tontoni
Again, my point was that Kerry went to Viet Nam and saw active service.
Bush did not. Gore went to Viet Nam and saw active service, albeit with
a camera. Bush did not. Even had Bush completed his requirements with
the ANG (and he probably did) he has not been in nor has he seen a
fire-fight except on TV.
You do realize that in an army that the sharp pointy end is a long smaller
than the tail. F-102s went to VN. it was certainly possible that he could
have, it wasn't any political trick it was the luck of the draw.
Post by Stephen Tontoni
Regarding Kerry deserving the medals or not, that's highly subjective.
In addition to the 3 purple hearts, though, he was awarded a number of
http://www.awolbush.com/images/Kerry_Military_awards.jpg) So Kerry's
service in Viet Nam isn't just about whether swiftboat vets thought that
the 3 purple hearts were warranted or not.
I beleive they also questioned the citations for the other medals, too. And
that still doesn't answer for his behavior after he got home.
Post by Stephen Tontoni
And honestly, at this point, I don't even recall what the initial
discussion was about, which frequently happens when talking to
conservatives! (that's a joke, by the way... sort of)
Someone was attacking Reagan for "only" serving in Hollywood making pictures
when his hearing problems clearly precluded him from combat and the service
decided he was better making propaganda. He served in the capacity assigned
to him, for the duration.
Post by Stephen Tontoni
--- Tontoni
(and one further PS... I didn't care for Kerry as presidential material.
He's an intellectual windbag. Kerry's entire platform was "I'm not
George Bush".. and that was nearly enough for him to win the election. I
don't know anyone personally who was REALLY a Kerry supporter. Anyway,
that Kerry came as close as he did to winning shows just how ready this
country was to get rid of Bush.)
And I don't neccessarily care for Bush as a President though I do believe he
is a decent man and has no malice in his heart. His aggressive attitude
toward the terrorists who have been murdering unimpeded for 30 years gets my
applause, but not that loudly because frankly I think he's pulling his
punches (we should have hit Syria, at least the border areas long ago). And
much of his domestic agenda is not even remotely conservative or
libertarian. What scares me about the Dems is the lieing and spinelessness
regarding the war.
tomcervo
2005-10-10 10:51:54 UTC
Permalink
Let's hear about your record, hero--you're the one denigrating the
service of men who went to Viet Nam, at a second-hand reach. You ignore
the statements of the crew who served under Kerry and the man whose
life he saved--are they liars as well?
What was it like when YOU were there?
Doug Reese
2005-10-10 11:17:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gray Ghost
Post by Stephen Tontoni
Post by Gray Ghost
Post by tomcervo
"Though Thank God it's not Gore or Kerry up there! "
Yeah, you know what they say about those Viet Nam vets.
On the other hand, the national budget might look like something
other than that of a coed in her first year away at college.
Vets? Gore had an armed escort the whole time he was in
country as a photo journalist. IHe wasn't in for the full
year that everyone else was and I doubt he ever heard a shot
fired. And ther's enough doubt about Kerry and his "Purple
Hearts. Yellow Feathers is more like it.
I decided to allow that George W. Bush *may* have actually not been a
deserter as it was disclosed LONG BEFORE the Dan Rather story. I was
called on that here, and thought; okay, give W the benefit of the doubt.
Maybe he did serve with the Alabama ANG, although there are no documents
that support this.
So out of courtesy, I'd ask that you also discount the Swift Boat
allegations about Kerry's record. Kerry did, after all, go to Viet Nam,
and did serve there. At least we know he showed up and was not a
deserter, whatever his actions there were.
As a matter of quid pro quo, let's not cast stones at Kerry's record
until Bush's can be established with any sense of accuracy.
Gore also was THERE; Bush never went to Viet Nam at all.
Bush: never went to Viet Nam, never saw live fire against an enemy
Gore: went to Viet Nam, saw live fire, shot back with a camera (etc)
Kerry: went to Viet Nam, saw live fire, shot back with deadly force.
Can anyone reasonably dispute these three statements of their records?
--- Tontoni
I am still waiting for one of you Kerry apologists and agaenda driven,
intellectually dishonest characters to stop focusing just on Alabama (which
I'll get to in a later post) and acknowledge the simple fact that Bush
enlisted in the Air National Guard was trained and actually flew a high
performance, nuclear missile capable interceptor. Your insistence on
focusing on the allegedly missed service in Alabama whilst flatly ignoring
his service in Texas is ridiculous and insulting. I concede nothing. If
there was actual evidence then the Democratic flunkies would not have had to
stupidly forge documents in a way that was easily detected, suggesting his
detractors knew so little of the military (and are so divorced from reality)
as to think that such "evidence" would have any credibility.
Had there been a shred of actual evidence false evidence would not have to
be manufactured.
And the Swift Vets are extremely credible.
Credible? Are you serious? They were anything BUT credible.
Post by Gray Ghost
They each tell very similar
stories of a fairly incompetent, cowardly glory hound.
Actually, most of them, including Swift Boat Veterans for "truth"
leader/spokesperson John O'Neill, never saw Kerry in Vietnam.

Similar stories? Not really. I mean, they did get together in an
Arlington VA hotel before their two news conferences and, shall we say,
"compare notes", but there were very few of them present for any of
Kerry's combat incidents to do any comparing.

You mention (later in this post) something that allegedly happened
during the incident where Kerry was awarded the Silver Star. That
incident is an example of what I'm talking about -- something like
25-26 Americans there that day, but not one single member of the Swift
Boat Veterans for "truth". Strange, isn't it? They would have you
belive that damn near every guy who ever set foot on a Swift Boat
belonged to their organization, but out of all the guys there that day,
not one member.

Whoops, there was one (just one) member present that day. But he
supports Kerry being awarded the Silver Star for that action.

Amazingly, you won't find that in Unfit for Command.

Too bad, as it would have been nice to have some truth here and there
in that book. . . . . . .
Post by Gray Ghost
And Kerry's refusal
to release his records frankly allows one to assume the worst, if they would
exonerate him, why not release them.
Just about every record he had was upon his website during the
election. And then he signed a Form 180 recently which allowed AP, the
LA Times and Boston Globe to have direct access to his records. They
found nothing new, other than his grades were one point lower than GW's
at Yale . . . .
Post by Gray Ghost
So indeed let's recap.
Gore went to Vietnam and was guarded by another soldier who might have been
more valuable elsewhere because he was such a valuable human being, the
fortunate son of a Senator (who I believe voted against the Civli Rights
Act).
Clinton flat lied to the draft board, did not sign up for ROTC as he
promised, then went overseas, didn't smoke pot, didn't complete his term at
Oxford and traveled to the Soviet Union via Sweden and stayed in a very nice
hotel usually reserved for special guests of Soviet Union, all whilst a poor
as a churchmouse student.
Kerry spent a good deal less than his year, claimed Purple Hearts for wounds
that other men said they would have been embarassed to put in for.
More specifically, other men who didn't like Kerry said they would be
embarassed to put in for. Thousands of others DID put in for similar
wounds. And I assume you know that he still has shrapnel in his leg
from one of those wounds.
Post by Gray Ghost
When he
got home early he lent his "credibility" as a combat officer to a bunch of
anti American scumbags, lied about what was happening claiming to have
witnessed atrocities that noone else has ever verified (having shot a man in
the back himself).
And here we have it -- a Swift Boat Veterans for "truth" sound bite
that is nothing but shameless and dishonest, to say the least.

If, in fact, he had shot that guy in the back, so what? It was in the
middle of a firefight. One doesn't ask the enemy to turn around in
those circumstances.

You did realize the circumstances of that situation before making that
comment, didn't you?

But he actually did NOT shoot him in the back. He has said so the one
time he was asked directly. Plus, another Swift Boat officer on the
scene saw the killing wound, and it was not in the back.

Needless to say, none of this is in Unfit for Command, the SBV"t" book
of fairy tales.

Doug Reese

PS. Your comment below on Kerry's photo in the war museum in Saigon is
also false, but I realize what your source is, and about all I can say
is that you should get another book/source that contains something
closer to the truth.
Post by Gray Ghost
He went to Paris while still an officer in the US Navy
and participated in talks with North Vietnam in direct contravention of his
responsibilties as a serving officer. His picture hangs in some communist
hall of heros in South Vietnam as having helped the North in it's cause in
murdering and subjugating a people.
Jan. 19, 1968: Bush completes Air Force officer qualifications test in New
Haven, Conn., while attending Yale University.
May 27, 1968: Walter B. Staudt, commander of the Texas National Guard,
interviews Bush and recommends he be accepted for pilot training. Bush's
application for enlistment in the Guard is approved.
June 1968: Bush receives bachelor of arts degree from Yale.
July 12, 1968: A three-member Federal Recognition Examining Board reports
Bush is qualified for promotion to 2nd Lieutenant in the 111th Fighter
Interceptor Squadron.
July 14, 1968: Bush attends basic military training in San Antonio.
Aug. 25, 1968: Completes basic military training.
Nov. 26, 1968 - Dec. 2, 1969: Attends undergraduate pilot training with the
3559th Student Squadron, Moody Air Force Base, Ga. He is trained to fly
standard Air Force aircraft, including the T-31, T-37, and T-39.
Dec. 29, 1969 - Jan. 20, 1970: Trainee, 111th Squadron, Ellington Air Force
Base, near Houston.
Jan. 11, 1970: Assigned flying duty as a pilot of F-102 fighter
interceptors, 111th Squadron at Ellington.
Aug. 24, 1970: Three-member board recommends 2nd Lt. Bush for promotion to
first lieutenant. Bush later receives the promotion.
1971: Participates in drills and alerts at Ellington. Begins work for
Houston-based agricultural company.
I concede nothing buddy. Bring on whatever you got. The truth WILL prevail.
g***@gmail.com
2005-10-10 21:29:38 UTC
Permalink
...agaenda driven,
intellectually dishonest characters ...
LOL.

Irony.

E.P.
Gray Ghost
2005-10-11 02:13:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
...agaenda driven,
intellectually dishonest characters ...
LOL.
Irony.
E.P.
Four words. Dan Rather. Fake memos. 'Nuff said.

Why would a person who had 30 years or more in as a "journalist" who was
supposed to be an honest unbiased reporter of fact do such a blatantly
stupid and dishonest thing.

1) agenda driven
2) intellectually dishonest
Doug Reese
2005-10-10 10:48:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomcervo
Post by tomcervo
"Though Thank God it's not Gore or Kerry up there! "
Yeah, you know what they say about those Viet Nam vets.
On the other hand, the national budget might look like
something other
Post by tomcervo
than that of a coed in her first year away at college.
Vets? Gore had an armed escort the whole time he was in
country as a photo journalist. IHe wasn't in for the full
year that everyone else was
That is correct. However, the reason he left is that his term of
enlistment was up.

Doug
Post by tomcervo
and I doubt he ever heard a shot
fired. And ther's enough doubt about Kerry and his "Purple
Hearts. Yellow Feathers is more like it.
r***@rcn.com
2005-10-06 06:02:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Tontoni
Anyway, back to the topic that's off-topic. What was the actor's name
who played Lebeau on Hogan's Heroes?
I first mentioned him last week, he's been named a few other times since
then.....had you been paying actual attention until your political hot
button was pushed you wouldn't have to ask.
WmB
2005-10-06 17:30:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@rcn.com
Anyway, back to the topic that's off-topic. What was the actor's name who
played Lebeau on Hogan's Heroes?
I first mentioned him last week, he's been named a few other times since
then.....had you been paying actual attention until your political hot
button was pushed you wouldn't have to ask.
If you were a fat German Luftwaffe guard with a hankering for French
cuisine,
Robert Clary's Louis Lebeau could pry the information out of you in seconds.
Schnell!

Not me though - I'll never spill the beans.

8-)D

WmB
Stephen Tontoni
2005-10-06 23:30:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by WmB
Post by r***@rcn.com
Anyway, back to the topic that's off-topic. What was the actor's name who
played Lebeau on Hogan's Heroes?
I first mentioned him last week, he's been named a few other times since
then.....had you been paying actual attention until your political hot
button was pushed you wouldn't have to ask.
If you were a fat German Luftwaffe guard with a hankering for French
cuisine,
Robert Clary's Louis Lebeau could pry the information out of you in seconds.
Schnell!
Not me though - I'll never spill the beans.
8-)D
WmB
What's that.... you know nothink! nothink!!

(I have the Jimmy Flinstone Schultz figure that I should build and paint
some time)

--- Tontoni
Mad-Modeller
2005-10-07 03:02:49 UTC
Permalink
Robert Clary, I believe.

Bill Banaszak, MFE
AM
2005-10-06 04:12:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Tontoni
Dodging military obligation? Of course, you're referring to our current
fearless leader; I can't think of another one right now... but where did
Bush go? We only know bits and pieces of his Alabama ANG involvement. So
what are you saying that Bush did? Sorry, I'm not following you here...
--- Tontoni
And where is your proof ????

Clinton flat out reneged on his obligation.
Even if he had fulfilled his obligation, he
would never have been assigned to something
as complicated and demanding as flying a
supersonic fighter.............




I just cant understand how you far to the
left types fawn over scumbags like Clinton,
and even worse Ted Kennedy.............





















AM
William H. Shuey
2005-10-05 17:05:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Tontoni
Ronald Reagan? Granted he was a captain in the army, but his tour of
duty was Hollywood and confined to that theater (pun entirely intended)
while he made movies (and training films) throughout the war.
--- Tontoni
Same for Alan Ladd. According to one account his wife, who was also
his agent, had to approve the scripts for all the training films he made
for the army. Whatta deal!
Clark Gable on the other hand went in, supposedly as an air gunner,
but got stuck as a non-com technical advisor on filming techniques. He
managed to get in 4 or 5 combat missions before Spaatz found out and
pulled him out. "Tooey" Spaatz didn't want any adverse publicity for the
air force if the star of "Gone With the Wind" got killed in his command.
Another one who hasn't been mentioned here, and not strictly was he
a hollywood star, was band leader Eddie Duchin. He went in the Navy and
was involved in selecting and training sonar operators. His years as a
musician gave him an ability to hear and evaluate sound and he
apparently had the ability to impart some of his knowledge to others.
Many don't.

Bill Shuey
g***@gmail.com
2005-10-05 17:34:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by William H. Shuey
Clark Gable on the other hand went in, supposedly as an air gunner,
but got stuck as a non-com technical advisor on filming techniques. He
managed to get in 4 or 5 combat missions before Spaatz found out and
pulled him out. "Tooey" Spaatz didn't want any adverse publicity for the
air force if the star of "Gone With the Wind" got killed in his command.
And yet the Pacific Theater commanders didn't have any problem with
Lindberg going out and teaching them fuel-savings techniques in P-38s.

Didn't Lindy get a chance to down a Betty?

E.P.
r***@rcn.com
2005-10-05 17:46:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
And yet the Pacific Theater commanders didn't have any problem with
Lindberg going out and teaching them fuel-savings techniques in P-38s.
Didn't Lindy get a chance to down a Betty?
Because of his ties to the "America First" movement and its relations to
pro-Nazi groups Lindberg could not get a commission. The only way he got
to fly military aircraft was as a consultant in the PTO, they weren't
going to let him near Europe for politcal reasons.
Bill Zuk
2005-10-05 20:02:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@rcn.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
And yet the Pacific Theater commanders didn't have any problem with
Lindberg going out and teaching them fuel-savings techniques in P-38s.
Didn't Lindy get a chance to down a Betty?
Because of his ties to the "America First" movement and its relations to
pro-Nazi groups Lindberg could not get a commission. The only way he got
to fly military aircraft was as a consultant in the PTO, they weren't
going to let him near Europe for politcal reasons.
On 28 July, 1944, Lindy did have a head-to-head run-on with a Zero over
Amboena, Dutch East Indies, and brought it down; that seems to be the only
confirmed victory in his 50 missions flying F4U Corsairs and P-38s in the
Pacific.
g***@gmail.com
2005-10-05 20:16:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Zuk
Post by r***@rcn.com
Post by g***@gmail.com
And yet the Pacific Theater commanders didn't have any problem with
Lindberg going out and teaching them fuel-savings techniques in P-38s.
Didn't Lindy get a chance to down a Betty?
Because of his ties to the "America First" movement and its relations to
pro-Nazi groups Lindberg could not get a commission. The only way he got
to fly military aircraft was as a consultant in the PTO, they weren't
going to let him near Europe for politcal reasons.
On 28 July, 1944, Lindy did have a head-to-head run-on with a Zero over
Amboena, Dutch East Indies, and brought it down; that seems to be the only
confirmed victory in his 50 missions flying F4U Corsairs and P-38s in the
Pacific.
Ah, thank you. My mind remembers about 10% of this trivia, and of that
10%, I get half of it wrong.

:)

E.P.
S***@webtv.net
2005-10-08 06:10:17 UTC
Permalink
I can't believe nobody mentioned Dirk Bogarde, He was in A bridge too
far, and served in British military inteligence on opperation market
garden, The subject of the movie.
Mad-Modeller
2005-10-09 03:15:17 UTC
Permalink
Tim Holt spent some time in the military during WWII. I don't know
which branch.

Bill Banaszak, MFE
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